After My Husband Died Something Incredible Happened | Michelle Bader Ebersole | 062

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All of the sudden I felt the
most peace I've ever felt in my

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entire life and in this vision I
was in Lukes body and the first

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thing I heard was I'm not in
pain like I'm I'm hearing Lukes

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thoughts like this is some
amazing stuff God gave to me.

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And then the next thought was
I'm OK to leave my family.

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Welcome to When You Look, where
ordinary people share their

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extraordinary experiences and
you get to decide, was it

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coincidence or God?
Michelle, welcome to When You

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Look.
Super pumped to have you on the

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show.
Yes, thanks for having me.

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Excited to be here.
Well, listen, we are

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legitimately excited to have you
and we're legitimately excited

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to hear your story.
Oh man, I want to say so much

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about it, but I can't because
it's totally your story to

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share.
So before we get into the story,

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let's get to know you a little
bit.

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Tell our listeners about
yourself.

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All right, well, I live in
Washington state, lived in my

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whole life.
I have three adult kids.

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Well, one is 17/19/21, which is
weird entering this whole new

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stage of life, having adult
kids.

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And I used to be an elementary
teacher.

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That's why I have my masters in
education.

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But God totally redirected my
life, which we'll be talking

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about a lot today.
And now I work with widows

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pretty much full time.
I have a podcast for widows

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called Widow Too Soon.
I wrote a book.

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I have a program for churches, I
have retreats, I have

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nonprofits, all kinds of things.
And so God just took what I

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learned in school about how to
teach, and now I apply it to

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adults in a much different way.
And yeah, I'm just learning this

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new season in life of, you know,
being widowed and adult kids and

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I'm remarried and like, there's
so many things, but I want to be

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able to reveal those in my
stories.

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So that's just, yeah, a little
bit about what I do.

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Yeah, fabulous.
And what a great segue and

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foreshadow of what we're going
to hear about.

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So give us a little bit of back
story on things and then walk us

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through life as it went for you.
OK, So you have to go way back

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in my story to understand the
whole picture because it was

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over 17 years.
So we'll do lots of fast

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forwarding.
We're not actually going to live

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every day at 17 years, but we
got to go back further than

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that.
So Luke and I, that was my first

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husband.
We met in high school.

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We've talked about this before
when you're on My Cup podcast.

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We love the name Luke.
Obviously both of us have loved

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someone named Luke.
So Luke and I met in high

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school.
We did not date, we were

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friends.
He used to like joke around with

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me a lot and talk about all my
boy trouble.

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We were in home EC together.
Oh my.

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You know they don't even have
home EC anymore.

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But they long gone, right?
Long gone, yeah.

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So.
We have the flower babies you

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know you had to carry around.
We have a picture of me and him

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with flower babies, and that's
crazy when you think about it.

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Anyways, we met in high school,
but then he was a year older

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than me.
He graduated, I graduated the

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next year, went to college for
four years in Texas, which is

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gonna be part of my story later.
So remember that Laturner

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University.
And then I came back home and

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ran into him through mutual
friends and very quickly we

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started dating and got married a
year after our first date, which

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is completely God's timing with
everything that was going to

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happen in the future.
Even when we were dating, Luke

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had noticed a lump in his ankle.
He went to the doctor's at the

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time, he was 25, and they were
like, it's tendonitis, don't

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worry about it.
He was a mail carrier with a

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walking route, so he walked a
lot.

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And then we got married in
August and then actually two

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months later we got pregnant.
So it was like just a lot in our

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first year with our first born.
And then he went to the doctor

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again 'cause it kept getting
bigger.

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And then they said it's time for
a biopsy.

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And it was meson
chymochondrosarcoma, which is a

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very rare bone cancer normally
found in children.

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So they didn't really know how
to treat it.

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I was devastated.
So you know, I was 24 years old

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and I just thought my world was
going to be one way.

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I just started a teaching job,
just got married and found out I

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was pregnant and then found out
my husband had cancer.

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I was completely shocked.
He was healthy his whole life,

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never had more than an ear
infection and he was like this

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big, strong, athletic.
He was really good at baseball

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all growing up.
Like it's just a shock that he

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had cancer and I went through
some anger.

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Definitely.
I was young and I was just like,

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why do why is my husband sick?
All my friends husbands, we were

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all getting married around that
time like they're all healthy

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and we were all having babies
and stuff.

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Like why am I the one who has a
sick husband?

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And then we had to decide.
So we did.

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Chemo did not work.
So we did not shrink.

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The tumor didn't do anything but
make him really sick.

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And he decided to, we decided
together to have his leg

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amputated 'cause there was
actually like 2 choices.

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Either we could have the tumor
removed and it he'd have to wear

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a special boot his whole life
and it was way more likely to

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come back or do the amputation 2
inches below his right knee.

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So after a lot of prayer,
talking to our church, talking,

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getting counsel, we decided to
do that.

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And it was a very horrible day.
I'll never forget, like walking

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in and then watching him go into
surgery.

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And I remember like just sliding
down the the wall, like right

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after they wheeled him out,
like, I'm back in that area.

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And this I'm just crying and
crying.

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And this nurse was like, do you
have anybody here for you?

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And I was like, yes.
And I was just rubbing my belly

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saying, it's OK, Hayden.
Hayden's our first born.

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Daddy's going to be OK.
Daddy's going to be OK.

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And then going out into the
waiting room and we had on like

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20 people there, you know, to be
with me.

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But it was super difficult.
When he got out of surgery, he

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was in a lot of pain.
So amputees have what's called

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phantom pain, and it feels like
your foots on fire or it's being

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crushed.
And he had those his whole life.

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He ended up having those and
they were horrible and would

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wake him up.
And it was just really painful,

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really hard to watch this big
strongman learn to walk again.

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And just everything that went
with it was so difficult.

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So that was the beginning of
everything.

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And that was May 7th of 2004.
And that's what we considered

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his cancer free day because
thankfully the cancer was

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nowhere else.
So we tried to turn it into a

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positive.
So we that's a day that we told

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the kids every year this is
cancer free day.

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It was also really hard because
my dream was to be a stay at

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home mom, but I had to go back
to teaching when Hayden was six

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weeks old, which was really
difficult because everything

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going on with Luke, he was not
working.

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He did go back for a little bit
as a male care, but not walking,

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just a standing route.
But it's still too much.

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So maybe six months he went back
to work, but it was way too

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hard.
So I'm basically doing all of

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the working and all the stuff.
We went on to have two more

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kids.
We were told we might not be

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able to have more kids.
So we tried right away and had

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three kids, 3 1/2 and younger,
which was a crazy time, which

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was, you know, Hayden was 3 1/2
and then my daughter Haley was

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18 months and my son Peyton was
newborn, like all at once crazy.

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And Luke being sick off and on.
So he never really fully covered

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recovered because the chemo made
his immune system really low.

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So he'd pick up like every
little sickness and in the time

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like the years after that, yes,
we consider him cancer free, but

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he had pancreatitis, cirrhosis,
diabetes.

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He was in out of the hospitals
so many times with so many

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issues.
So he never like, I never really

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got to experience what a
marriage should be like 'cause

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he was always sick. 1st 16 1/2
out of 17 years he was sick.

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Fast forward from the time of
his amputation to later on, Fast

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forward about 13 years, cancer
free, but lots of issues and he

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started noticing some pain.
So we went and had a scan and

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they found some tumors on his
lungs and we always knew if it

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came back it would be in his
lungs and it would be terminal.

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But once we passed that 10 year
mark, I thought we were good.

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You know, I was like that would,
you know, we're good 10 years.

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It doesn't come back as often,
but it did.

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And I remember talking to the
doctor, like, I don't get it.

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Like, how did this happen?
And he said there was some

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dormant cell that lay there for
all those years and then started

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growing.
So this time, we had kids to sit

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down.
They were 911 and 13 at the

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time, and they knew all about
Luke's cancer because obviously,

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like, he was an amputee and I
mean, that's all they knew.

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But as they got older, they
wanted to know, you know, why is

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his leg different?
You know, all of that stuff.

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I also wrote a book about our
first year of marriage because

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we were always like, you know,
people say first year of

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marriage is so hard.
And we're like, why did they

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have cancer?
Like, I don't understand what

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would be hard because we spent
more nights in hospitals than

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than like a hotel or a trip.
So I wrote a book all about our

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first year, like when it was
fresh because I want to get it

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all.
And so my older two had already

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read the book.
And so they knew really a lot

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about his journey.
But this time it was so much

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harder with kids and sitting
them down, but saying we're

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going to fight this, Like, we're
going to pray for healing.

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And we looked for all kinds of
treatments because Lucas said,

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I'm never doing chemo again.
Couldn't find anything.

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No, he didn't qualify for
clinical trials, is still a very

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rare cancer.
And so he started chemo again

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because that's the only choice
if we wanted to fight it and he

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wanted to live as long as
possible.

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So he started chemo and again,
it didn't really work.

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Like I think maybe he did it for
a year off and on, which was

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also super difficult this time.
The kids watching him lose his

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hair and throw up and just
everything that goes with chemo

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and be very weak and all of it.
So it didn't work.

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So eventually it was quality of
life.

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Like I remember where I was
sitting, I was in the car at

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Walmart about to go grab
something for my son.

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And I got the call and the
doctor's like, yeah, he probably

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has 6 to 9 months.
And I was like, what?

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And I remember walking into
Walmart just being like, what is

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happening?
Like you feel kind of out of

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body experience, Like what in
the world?

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My husband's going to die.
What?

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Like up until then, I didn't
believe that.

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I thought that God was going to
heal him.

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And even past that time, I still
prayed every day.

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I prayed with the kids every
single day that God would heal

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Daddy.
But I did say it may be in

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heaven.
I wanted to prepare them that it

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may not be here on earth, but He
will be healed because he was

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constantly in pain.
Imagine these big tumors growing

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in your lungs.
He was constantly coughing and

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he had a hard time breathing.
He would get where he would.

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His lungs would fill up with
liquid and we'd have to have

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them drained.
And I mean just so many

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complications that it was and
really hard life and you know,

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so we got to that place where it
was like, OK, just enjoy every

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moment and we got to do some
really fun things.

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So there's this place.
I love mentioning the name in

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case somebody's looking for
something like this.

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It's called the Dream Foundation
and they grant last wishes to

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terminal adults.
Most everything else is for

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kids.
This is the only one.

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A friend found it for me and the
five of us had never been on a

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plane together.
We just couldn't afford it.

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So we went to Disneyland all
together on a plane and got to

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go experience that with Luke,
which it was a beautiful trip.

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00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,920
Also really hard because he was
in a lot of pain.

225
00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,960
He missed one of the days
because he's throwing up.

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00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,920
But we do have some great
pictures and great memories of

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00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,400
being there with him.
So we did that.

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00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,160
He was a huge football, college
football fan.

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00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,760
He loved University of Oregon,
Oregon Ducks, like since he was

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00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,400
born, that was like his thing.
So we got to go and like go on

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00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,480
the field, go in the locker
rooms, like we got so many

232
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,520
special beautiful things that
people did for us.

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00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,080
I just put a request on Facebook
and somebody would know

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00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,360
somebody.
And so many amazing things

235
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,080
happened during that time
period.

236
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,840
And then it was time for Hospice
and that was difficult because

237
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,480
he was like, I don't want that
means I'm dying.

238
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,440
I'm like, no, you can actually
graduate out in six months.

239
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,240
This means VIP care.
And I always get this message

240
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,160
out to people like get on
Hospice early.

241
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,680
The average person, this is what
our Hospice nurse told us.

242
00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:20,920
The average person's on it for
10 days.

243
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,720
He was on at 11 months.
Like, I don't know how I would

244
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,160
have done that year without
having a Hospice nurse.

245
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,680
So finally it took two times.
The first time he was like,

246
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:30,600
Nope, not doing it in.
Second time, he's like, OK, I'm

247
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,280
like, this is VIP care.
You don't have to go out.

248
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,120
Like they deliver all the
medications.

249
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:37,920
They come to you.
No more waiting in the office

250
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,440
with all the people like you get
to just have, you know, people

251
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,800
come over.
And so finally he agreed to

252
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,160
that.
And our nurse was amazing.

253
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,520
She's this Christian woman who
gave me her personal number and

254
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,800
was just so supportive of our
family.

255
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,440
Really bonded with Luke.
And he was a very private

256
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,080
person, very didn't let a lot of
people in.

257
00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,320
So they had a bond that was
beautiful.

258
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,800
So we started on Hospice and
then the world shut down in

259
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,000
2020.
So you know, March of 2020, my

260
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,600
kids were home, which now we can
see is a blessing for our family

261
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,720
because we had every day with
Luke.

262
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,920
So every single night we watched
movies because the kids could

263
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,000
stay up late as that was really
the only thing Luke could do.

264
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,960
So we would watch movies, have
popcorn, sometimes I'd make

265
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,640
cookies.
It was just like kind of like a

266
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,680
party every night with just like
taking in every moment and being

267
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,520
together.
We also one month, I know about

268
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,840
six weeks before he died, we
went to the beach so everything

269
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,760
was closed down and he said I
want to see the ocean one more

270
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,240
time.
We had a trip planned and then

271
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,040
everything closed down.
But thankfully a friend had a

272
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,760
friend who had an Airbnb and
they couldn't legally use it

273
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,800
anymore.
So they let us use it and we got

274
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,000
to go and it was Easter.
So we spent Easter at the beach

275
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,280
and they were, I was a very
bittersweet time because he

276
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,360
slept most of the time.
And it's the strangest thing

277
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,800
looking at someone and knowing
they're dying, like, and he was

278
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,800
having what's called muscle
wasting when it's like all your

279
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,280
muscles start deteriorating and
his face was caving in and just,

280
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,800
it was very sad.
It was, it was just a

281
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,680
bittersweet time.
I remember like setting up the

282
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,920
kids Easter baskets and then
sitting in the closet eating a

283
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,600
Cadbury egg bawling.
Like, I can't do this.

284
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,200
Like I cannot walk my kids
through death.

285
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,880
Like I just can't do it.
But I knew that it was coming.

286
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,440
So anticipatory grief is often
referred to like you're standing

287
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,640
on a train track knowing the
train's about to hit you.

288
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:38,040
And that's where I was at that
moment.

289
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,760
My entire life was on hold, not
knowing like when he was going

290
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,080
to die, but knowing he was going
to die unless there was some

291
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,320
crazy miracle, which we still
prayed for every day.

292
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,560
So we got to experience a lot of
beautiful things.

293
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,480
Another amazing memory.
So I know they don't have these

294
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,160
restaurants everywhere, but in
Washington, we have a restaurant

295
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,040
called Red Robin.
And it was like Luke's favorite

296
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,240
and also Haley's favorite.
So her birthday was in May of

297
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,360
2020, which was COVID.
And so first of all, there was

298
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,960
like her friends arranged or we
arranged this like drive by

299
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,400
birthday.
You know, people did that during

300
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,040
that time.
But then one of our friends,

301
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,520
somebody knew someone at the
corporate Red Robin and they

302
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,320
knew our story and they came
walking down our Rd. like the

303
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,080
whole like Robin dressed up a
big sign for Haley and like this

304
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,000
whole parade of people came and
brought us food from Red Robin.

305
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,040
And also in the mail she had
received all these gifts and it

306
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,600
was just this beautiful time.
And Luke was so excited that she

307
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,440
was excited.
And he would always set goals.

308
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,440
So his goal was like, I wanna
make it to Haley's birthday.

309
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,920
And then he was like, I want to
make it to Hayden's, which is in

310
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,600
July.
Unfortunately, he did not make

311
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,240
it, but he actually picked out
gifts for all the kids, which I

312
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,200
thought was super special
because he had just picked out a

313
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,400
Locket for Haley that said You
are My Sunshine, which was like

314
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,280
their song, which is one of her,
like, prized things that she

315
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,560
had.
And then he picked out presents

316
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,360
for me to give the boys on their
birthdays.

317
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,160
It was also so strange.
Like I remember going over like,

318
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,000
OK, what do we want for burial?
What do we want for this?

319
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,760
And just like, it just seemed so
surreal and like, just like

320
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120
what?
Like I, I mean, it's, I can't

321
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,800
explain the feeling of like
knowing he was dying and just

322
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,240
like having these conversations
and it was so cute.

323
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,880
He's like, I don't care for my
celebration of life, but it'd be

324
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,120
cool if everybody wore Oregon
Ducks.

325
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,840
So they did.
And we have all these pictures

326
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,320
even like people, my family were
like, they're into like Cougars,

327
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,840
which are totally opposite of
ducks.

328
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,160
Anyways, they wore it and it was
just a beautiful, like everyone

329
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,920
wearing that.
But Fast forward a little.

330
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,760
He's getting weaker and weaker.
May 22nd, his Hospice nurse came

331
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,120
and said, you know, it's coming
in about four to six weeks

332
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,320
probably.
She had told him you're going to

333
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,240
need a hospital bed.
He was still functioning, fully

334
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,440
functioning at that point.
He was so scared of us having to

335
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,080
change him and feed him all the
end of life stuff.

336
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,320
So we had this beautiful day on
the 22nd.

337
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,120
We even had this like family
hug, which we never really had.

338
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,280
Even our dog, which that's a
whole other story.

339
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,760
Side note, Luke had never had a
dog.

340
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,640
He said when I have three months
to live, I want a dog.

341
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,800
Literally 3 months to the day.
We didn't plan it.

342
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,040
We got Bentley, our
goldendoodle, which was kind of

343
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,119
a crazy time to get a puppy.
I didn't realize.

344
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:16,359
And people are like, Are you
sure?

345
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,560
I'm like yes, he wants 1.
And we totally bonded with

346
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,160
Bentley, and not only did he
help Luke, he helped us after

347
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,280
Luke died to just have this
wonderful animal to just love

348
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,160
us.
Hey, it's Mick real quick before

349
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,320
we keep going, if this
conversation is meaningful for

350
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,680
you, do me a favor.
Tap subscribe so you don't miss

351
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,120
the awesome stuff coming next.
And if you've gotten even one

352
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,120
insight from this episode,
please hit the like button.

353
00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:44,880
It's a small thing, but it helps
this reach more people who might

354
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,960
need it.
Last thing, think of one person

355
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,560
in your life who would benefit
from this.

356
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,520
Just one.
Share it with them right now.

357
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,160
That's how this grows, person to
person.

358
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:01,800
All right, back to it.
So anyways, on the 22nd, he was

359
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,840
we had this group hug.
I was saying goodnight to the

360
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,600
boys and then Haley came in and
Bentley came in our dog and it

361
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,280
was just this beautiful moment.
And then like something he he

362
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,000
was up late watching TVI was
like just come like something

363
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,880
that day that don't leave aside
like I just sat by him all day

364
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,760
that day, like while he was
watching TV.

365
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,640
And I just I don't know, I
didn't want to leave.

366
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,080
Like I just had this feeling and
it was kind of like he knew, but

367
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,280
he didn't.
And he a couple things he said

368
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,640
in his last few days.
He just said, he just held my

369
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,960
hand and he said, thank you for
being a great wife.

370
00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,200
You've been such a Good Wife.
And I was like, you're welcome.

371
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,920
Like it was just so like out of
the blue.

372
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,840
It's like he was just saying
these things, even though in his

373
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,120
mind he would say like, oh, next
Christmas, that like he didn't

374
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,080
really believe he was dying, but
he knew.

375
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,000
And then he also said to me, he
started crying and he said, I'm

376
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,640
going to never, I'm never going
to get to meet our grandkids.

377
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,040
And it was just like, whoa, like
these big moments were hitting

378
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,200
me.
But on that day, I just asked

379
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,720
him to come, like, let's go
watch something together in bed

380
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,160
and just hang out.
And another thing about Luke,

381
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,640
he's very independent.
He didn't ever like me making

382
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,160
him food, so I never really got
to do that wife part of making

383
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,400
food.
But that night he said, will you

384
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,720
make me a grilled cheese
sandwich?

385
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,040
I'm like, yes.
And I was like, so excited to

386
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,200
make him something and he ate
it.

387
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,480
And like, he never ate in bed.
But that day he did.

388
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,000
And we just watched shows.
And then I was like, this is our

389
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,480
best date ever.
He's like, yeah, it is.

390
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,000
And it was just like this
beautiful time that I can now

391
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,600
see was totally God.
And it used to like, I used to

392
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,840
stay up all night, like because
I had been given this book about

393
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,280
all this, the signs of death,
and you need to be listening for

394
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:40,640
this.
And you know, so I couldn't

395
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,120
sleep.
But that night I did sleep.

396
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,160
But I woke up at about 4:00 in
the morning on May 23rd with the

397
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,080
light in the hall on.
And he was trying to get

398
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,000
medicine.
He said his calf was really

399
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,880
hurting.
So he's like, can you get me a

400
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,880
heating pad?
Can you get me ice?

401
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,200
And we're, we're trying all his
things and he's just saying it's

402
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,880
hurting really bad.
When all the sudden he was

403
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,720
having difficulty breathing.
I saw his eyes roll back in his

404
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,520
head.
And he could not breathe.

405
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,360
I had no idea what was going on.
I later found out they think

406
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,080
it's a blood clot because of the
calf pain he was complaining

407
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,520
about.
It was probably started in his

408
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,800
calf and it went either to his
heart or his lungs.

409
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,560
And he couldn't survive it.
But we can see that as a

410
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,040
blessing because he didn't want
to deteriorate in front of us.

411
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,920
So he was fully functioning till
the end.

412
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:25,760
But I had no idea at that moment
what's happening.

413
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,000
Like what?
So I actually this is another

414
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,640
beautiful part of the story.
So Stephanie was his Hospice

415
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,760
nurse.
She was not.

416
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,520
She was not on work.
She was on vacation.

417
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,520
But she had given me her
personal number and I Facetimed

418
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,240
her and she was awake.
And I said.

419
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:43,800
You know.
Yes.

420
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,400
And I was like, I don't know
what's going on.

421
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,760
And she's like, let me see him.
And she's like, OK, I think it's

422
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,520
his time.
And then she was talking to him.

423
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,800
She was telling me to give him
Haldol, which this is this

424
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,960
medicine to help him relax.
And it was just, she told me

425
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,360
that God had woken her up, that
she's always woken up before

426
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:00,800
when people are dying, like she
just knows it was just beautiful

427
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,280
things.
So she was able to be there.

428
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,960
And then we were, we had the
Hospice person on duty.

429
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,320
He came over and we had tried
oxygen.

430
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,080
Well, at first it's just me, I'm
trying oxygen, trying all these

431
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,480
things.
And then the, the Hospice nurse

432
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,440
on the phone, he told me it's
time to tell your kids.

433
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,080
And I was like, what?
So I woke up my kids and I'll

434
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,480
never forget going into Haley's
room who was just turned 14 and

435
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,800
he said it's time to say goodbye
to daddy.

436
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:34,360
She said no it's not time and
like it is and I the only way I

437
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:39,000
can explain the situation is
supernatural piece.

438
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:44,240
I was not crying, I was not
freaking out and I had seen him

439
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,440
struggling to breathe.
But when I came back in the room

440
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,280
with the kids, completely
peaceful, his eyes locked in the

441
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,600
corner, which I'll tell more
about that in a minute and

442
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,600
completely calm.
And then I told the kids, you

443
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,400
know, talk to him.
He can hear you.

444
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,320
And I'll remember my 12 year old
at the time.

445
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,440
He was you're such a good daddy.
Like just saying all these

446
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,160
things.
I was able to have the Peace of

447
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,320
Mind to like call his parents,
call my parents.

448
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:08,920
So his mom got there really
quickly.

449
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,360
She sang to him, Haley, my
daughter's saying you are my

450
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,000
sunshine, which was their song.
And I was talking to him and I

451
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,120
said, today you're going to hear
well done, my good and faith

452
00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,120
servant.
And today you're going to meet

453
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,440
my grandparents.
And I just, and I wasn't crying.

454
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,120
I was completely calm.
And after I think we were with

455
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,960
him maybe 45 minutes or so of
him just peacefully, eyes locked

456
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,040
in the corner, he did try to
talk.

457
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,840
He kept saying aye, aye.
And I said, it's OK.

458
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,160
We know you love us.
And Hayden, my son later

459
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,440
actually had a dream and he's
like, he he he was saying I love

460
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,680
you.
Like that's what he was saying.

461
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,600
I'm like, I know that's what he
was trying to say.

462
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,000
All this time.
I'm wondering what's going on in

463
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,680
his head because he can't talk.
His eyes are locked in one

464
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,320
position.
He's not really blinking like

465
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,080
what is going on in his head,
which I'll get to that point in

466
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,880
a minute.
So I decided to play the song.

467
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,800
I can only imagine.
I don't know why I but I feel

468
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,520
like it kind of gave him
permission.

469
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,240
Like this song, if you don't
know, is all about heaven.

470
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,360
I still can't really listen to
it because it brings me back to

471
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,640
that moment.
But that is actually when he

472
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,960
took his last breath.
I don't know if it was like the

473
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:22,120
song that helped him and the
entire time his eyes locked in

474
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:24,640
the corner.
So I'm going to Fast forward to

475
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,280
give you a little input about
what God showed me and then

476
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,880
we'll get back to the current
where I was.

477
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,440
So two months after Luke died, I
went to a grief retreat which

478
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,040
was unheard of.
It was still COVID, but a friend

479
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,800
had found this place that was
willing to still have retreats

480
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,560
and do all the stuff.
And so I went and God showed me

481
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,280
a lot of things.
But I want to share this one

482
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,840
first.
So we did this thing where we

483
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,960
closed our eyes and said, God,
where were you in my darkest

484
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,720
moment and ask him to reveal it.
And the first thing that I saw,

485
00:23:56,120 --> 00:24:00,080
this is crazy because I don't
remember shutting the door to my

486
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,600
room and Hayden said he was
awake but saw that it was shut

487
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,160
and didn't go in.
And that was when Luke was

488
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,400
suffering, so he never saw it.
So in this vision, I saw Jesus

489
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,720
shutting the door like it got
shut somehow.

490
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,320
And so that protected my kids
from seeing the really hard

491
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,880
stuff.
So that was the first thing that

492
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,320
God revealed.
And then all of the sudden I

493
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:24,040
felt the most peace I've ever
felt in my entire life.

494
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,480
And in this vision, I was in
Luke's body like, and all I

495
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,480
just, I felt this supernatural
peace.

496
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,560
And the first thing I heard was
I'm not in pain.

497
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:40,000
Like I'm hearing Luke's thoughts
like this is some amazing stuff

498
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,440
God gave to me.
And then the next thought was

499
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,000
I'm OK to leave my family, which
was his biggest fear.

500
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,800
I mean, think about it.
Like I can't even think about

501
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,400
that thought.
It makes me so upset thinking

502
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,040
about leaving my kids.
And then I saw up in the corner,

503
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,160
I saw Jesus like floating in the
corner, like where his eyes were

504
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,440
for that hour.
Like I literally saw him like

505
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,520
floating there.
And I heard the song as Luke.

506
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,920
And I'm seeing me because I'm
Luke and I'm seeing the kids and

507
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,960
everybody around and his mom,
like I see everything.

508
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,960
But it's the supernatural piece
'cause he was already like

509
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,160
crossing over.
So he's like in this piece.

510
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,040
And I hear the song, I can only
imagine.

511
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,040
And I follow Jesus towards the
light.

512
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:23,640
And that's when the vision
ended.

513
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,640
And it was like the most
beautiful thing I've ever seen

514
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,240
I've ever experienced.
And at this grief retreat, I was

515
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,000
able to share it in front of
everybody who'd experienced all

516
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,120
their own grief.
Everybody's crying because so

517
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:41,240
many people, one woman even
stood up and said her son was in

518
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,200
a fire or something.
And she was like, so upset about

519
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,920
his death.
And like, that gave her peace,

520
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,480
that he was probably peaceful at
the end.

521
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,320
And I share it all the time
because it was something that

522
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,240
changed how I view death and
what he was thinking.

523
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,320
So now I'll go back to where I
was right after he died.

524
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:05,920
So I was OK until I'm watching
my kids kiss their dad goodbye

525
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,280
and say goodbye to him.
And they walked out of the room,

526
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,720
their grandma walked out with
them and it was just me and my

527
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,480
mom and Luke's body.
And that's when I, I laid on the

528
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:23,800
bed and just held his cold hand
and just cried like the cry that

529
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,440
like you don't even know you
have.

530
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,880
And there's something about
watching a soul leave a body and

531
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,200
seeing a body without a soul.
I know you get this.

532
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:37,680
Like it's, you can't explain it.
Like it is just awful.

533
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,800
And that's when I lost it.
And the kids later told me that

534
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,920
they heard me.
Like that's when they heard me

535
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,000
lose it.
They were in the other room.

536
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,240
We had a small house.
They heard it all and and then

537
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,200
my Hospice nurse has said you
want the kids to leave quickly.

538
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,400
You don't want to see them
putting in a body bag and all of

539
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,760
that.
And so we left quickly, which I

540
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,200
do have some regrets.
I later learned from my Hospice

541
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,280
nurse we could have stayed with
his body like all day if we

542
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,520
wanted to.
Didn't know that.

543
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,640
And I think it was my mom had
them call the corner.

544
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,200
And so then we were rushed to
get out.

545
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,440
And that's just a whirlwind, all
of that.

546
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,720
We went to my brother's house
and I was, you know, and you're

547
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,920
dealing with all I've got to
talk to the Funeral Home.

548
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,160
I got to do all these things.
And you're just kind of in

549
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,640
shock.
Even though I knew he was dying,

550
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,960
I was in shock because it wasn't
supposed to happen yet.

551
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,760
And I'll never forget also
coming back to the house a few

552
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,120
hours later.
The kids want to go home and

553
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,880
just the empty feeling like
walking in our room and seeing

554
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,680
his prosthetic leg like laying
on the bed because obviously

555
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,800
they left that and seeing the
the ice I brought him all

556
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,000
melted, seeing his glasses where
he left him his cup for months.

557
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,480
I didn't let anyone touch
anything on his night stand.

558
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,400
I'm like, Nope, leave it exactly
how he had it.

559
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,200
And it was just such an empty
feeling.

560
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,920
And like, of like, wow, I don't
know what to do now.

561
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,040
Like, my whole life is
completely shaken up in an

562
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,720
instant.
I went from being married to

563
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,240
being widowed.
And like, what is my life going

564
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,560
to look like?
My kids are 1214 and 15.

565
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,880
Like, I don't know how to do
this.

566
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,440
I didn't have any friends who
understood it.

567
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,480
I felt so alone.
I had great family, great

568
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,480
church, great friends, but none
of them had been through what

569
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,680
I'd been through.
And it was just such a lonely

570
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,040
place.
I mean, I was surrounded with

571
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,600
people right away.
I think the first two nights my

572
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,520
sister in law's spent the night
and you know, there's always

573
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,720
people coming over and it just
was a very dark place.

574
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,920
I like to explain it when it's
like everything you were ever

575
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,720
looking forward to is gone.
Like you just feel this dark

576
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,240
tunnel.
Like I didn't see any light.

577
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,360
I didn't see any hope.
But yet I had to live for my

578
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,160
kids.
And being a widow when you have

579
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,800
kids at home is especially hard
because you're grieving 2

580
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,200
things.
You're grieving your husband

581
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,840
just died, but their father just
died.

582
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,040
And so it's like balancing these
two griefs, like taking care of

583
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,760
them, but taking care of
yourself.

584
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,320
Thankfully, I had an amazing
counselor, and she actually made

585
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,120
a house call to my house the day
after he died.

586
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,080
And we did a counseling session
in her car.

587
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,200
And it was a hard time, too,
because the world was shut down.

588
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,320
There was nothing for us to go
to.

589
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,520
And I know so many widows from
COVID, like their, their

590
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,480
husbands died of COVID, their,
their husbands died in the

591
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,200
hospital.
They couldn't be with them.

592
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,400
So I am thankful he really
wanted to die at home.

593
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,520
So I'm so thankful that he could
do that.

594
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,960
But there's so many
circumstances where people

595
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,520
weren't able to be with their
loved ones because of COVID.

596
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,400
This is a really hard time.
So that's why it was so great

597
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,680
when a friend found this grief
retreat, which that's another

598
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,640
amazing thing that God did.
So we did a gravesite service

599
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,680
like 2 weeks after he died.
COVID restrictions, my own

600
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,040
brothers couldn't be there
because you had to 10 people,

601
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,640
they were in their cars
surrounding it, watching on live

602
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,160
stream.
So we, we wanted to do a

603
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,760
celebration of life.
That was just like the burial.

604
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,080
And my I had just arranged it
with my church and then they

605
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,960
called me like, sorry, new COVID
restrictions, we can't do it.

606
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,600
It was like for August, which
was like a few months after he

607
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,920
died, he died in May and
everything shut.

608
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,800
There was no place to do it.
I just decided to ask the leader

609
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,920
at this grief retreat if we
could do it there.

610
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,560
And she said yes.
And so we had a couple 100

611
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,240
people there.
It was about a 45 minute drive

612
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,880
from our house, but people were
good and it was all outdoors.

613
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,960
So that was great for COVID
stuff.

614
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,440
And so that retreat led me to
being able to do his celebration

615
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,040
of life there.
And it is beautiful.

616
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,440
Like we did it like we are
overlooking the Columbia Gorge,

617
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,320
which is just this beautiful
valley with a river and just

618
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,840
stunning.
And that's where we got to do

619
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,920
the celebration of life.
But I want to share a few more

620
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,560
things that God showed me at
that same grief retreat and then

621
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,200
kind of walk you through like
how life got better for me.

622
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,840
So, you know, this retreat
really was so part of my

623
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,640
healing.
So before the retreat, I was

624
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,240
like, maybe I'm being punished
because my husband died.

625
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,760
Like why did my husband die?
And I'm going through all these

626
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,200
emotions.
So there was another

627
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,160
supernatural actually like a
couple more at this retreat that

628
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,680
happened.
So we did this beautiful thing.

629
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,280
Never heard of this before,
never done it since.

630
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,240
But they had three crosses right
at the same place overlooking

631
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,000
the Columbia Gorge, and there
was some red paint.

632
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,320
And it sounds really strange,
but it is very like, sometimes

633
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,960
what you do in the physical,
then you could feel in the

634
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,840
spiritual, right?
So they said, we want you to dip

635
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,240
your hands on this red paint,
you know, signifying blood, and

636
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,160
put your hands on the cross and
like, look into Jesus's eyes.

637
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,960
I want you to feel the pain that
he felt.

638
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,680
So I did it.
And so I'm feeling his pain and

639
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,800
then I collapse and then brought
back to Luke's deathbed again.

640
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,880
And I am wailing, deeper wailed
than I've ever wailed in my

641
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,080
whole life because it was the
first time away from my kids

642
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,560
that I got to process
everything.

643
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,360
And I'm at Luke's deathbed
scene, the whole scene again.

644
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,120
Like, why, God, are you showing
me this again?

645
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,160
And then there's Jesus and he
puts a crown on my head and he

646
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,680
said I am so proud of you.
Out of all the people in the

647
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:12,160
world, I chose you to be Luke's
wife and to walk him to death.

648
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,160
It's not a punishment.
I chose you and I believe that

649
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,280
message is for you and for
everyone listening.

650
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,680
We were all chosen to be in
people's lives, whether they're

651
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,440
living or they're not living.
It's a gift to be in people's

652
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,640
lives.
And that's my biggest message I

653
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,880
share with widows when and they
tell me that it changes

654
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,000
everything.
So in that instant, it reframed

655
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,520
everything in my life.
OK, I'm not being punished.

656
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,720
This is a gift.
Like God could have chose

657
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,120
someone else, but I got to be
Luke's wife.

658
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,440
Like, what a privilege.
And so that changed something

659
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,320
for me.
And then there were like one

660
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,240
more.
There's like one more

661
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,560
supernatural thing.
I'm walking in this field, and

662
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,880
it reminds me of a field.
I grew up going to this camp

663
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,760
every single summer.
I loved camp.

664
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,720
I was camp counselor.
I was on staff as a lifeguard.

665
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,080
It was like my favorite place to
be.

666
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,600
And I saw myself like, running
across that field.

667
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,720
And God said, I'm going to
restore the joy of your youth.

668
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,400
And I was like, OK.
And when I say God said for me,

669
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,280
it's in my head.
I don't hear an audible voice

670
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:14,040
but I was like.
It's a knowing.

671
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,240
Yeah, it's just like this
thought and I'm like, that's

672
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,920
God, okay.
And I'm like, that would be cool

673
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,040
because over time, like I was
not the same person anymore.

674
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,480
Like the years of cancer and
hard mayor, all the things had

675
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,040
like weighed me down.
So I don't really have that joy

676
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,640
anymore.
People said they'd watched that

677
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,560
happen.
And then the other thing was,

678
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,040
I'm going to redeem and restore
everything you lost in your

679
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,880
marriage.
And I was like, what?

680
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,000
Because Luke and I never really
got to.

681
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,760
We never had double dates.
We never got to.

682
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,640
We didn't get to go out on dates
at night very often at all

683
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,160
because he was always sick.
He was canceling all the time.

684
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,960
We couldn't go do much of all
anything, especially the last

685
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,360
few years.
And so I knew in that moment

686
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:53,680
that I was going to get married
again.

687
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,480
I didn't know when or how or
who, but I knew.

688
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,080
And so I just kind of like put
that in my head.

689
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,800
I wasn't ready yet.
That was two months after he

690
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,760
died.
I was not ready, but I knew I

691
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,680
was going to get married again.
And so those are all things that

692
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:11,800
God did at that retreat that are
just amazing and kind of going

693
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,920
back to what life was like at
that point.

694
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,199
Very, very hard to lead myself,
leave the kids, all the things.

695
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,480
So I just drove into healing
like it was my job.

696
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,639
And that's what I tell people.
You've got to treat healing like

697
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,520
it's your job because it really
is that first year of grief,

698
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,159
you've just got to work at it.
And so I read every single grief

699
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,639
book I could find.
I had regular counseling, grief

700
00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:42,040
counseling, grief retreat and
and a lot of time just on my

701
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,960
face like God heal me, like help
me and I would always be covered

702
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,800
with the peace that passes all
understanding every single time

703
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,560
I would be covered with it.
And this is also how I explain

704
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,159
grief.
I'm sure you can relate to this,

705
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:58,960
that in the beginning it's like
a dark, stormy, cloudy day.

706
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,560
It's awful.
Every single day.

707
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,640
One day you see like a sun
break.

708
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,280
There's like a little bit of sun
and you're like, oh, there is

709
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,440
life out there again, OK.
And as you are doing the work

710
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,080
and time is passing, it starts
to be more and more and more sun

711
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,640
until eventually where I'm at 5
1/2 years later, it's mostly

712
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,600
sunny.
I still have stormy days when I

713
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,600
grieve Luke, but they don't last
as long like I'm able to.

714
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,160
Like, OK, it was like a 10
minute storm, not an all day

715
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,320
storm.
And that's where I am now.

716
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,720
And so as life started to get
better, I was like, OK, I'm

717
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:30,400
feeling better.
I think I want to help other

718
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,040
people.
You know, I, I searched high and

719
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,200
low.
I couldn't find any groups for

720
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,560
widows.
And so I decided to start a

721
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,480
nonprofit.
It's called Widow Goals.

722
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,000
Widows helping widows not only
survive but thrive.

723
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,160
And so I created this group.
We meet once a month.

724
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,040
We've been doing it for several
years now and we are now in 30

725
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,040
cities because other people said
to me, how do you do it?

726
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,240
And I made videos and taught
them on how to do it.

727
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:55,680
And I have a group where I just
share things on how to lead

728
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,680
widows groups.
So I was one of the first things

729
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:03,720
that I did and then I started
really early in my journey.

730
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:07,320
I started a TikTok channel and I
just started sharing and I found

731
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,920
thousands, literally thousands
of widows who were resonating

732
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,440
with what I was saying.
And just I would say widow goal

733
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,600
number one, get out of bed.
And I just like give them little

734
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,640
goals.
And so that's how that started.

735
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,760
And then the other really big
thing that I did is I found

736
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,480
people on Facebook who got it.
I found Facebook groups.

737
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,000
That's really where I found my
widow people in the beginning.

738
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,160
And that's where I tell people
to to look first is social

739
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,960
media, because you may not know
anybody in your area.

740
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,800
And so I was on this group and I
met a widower and we became

741
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,280
really good friends.
His wife had died from cancer as

742
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,600
well.
So we just kind of bonded over

743
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:47,560
this whole thing.
So anyways, we decided we were

744
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,600
in this group more like these
people need Jesus, like they're

745
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,160
turning to all the wrong things.
So we decided to start a

746
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,720
podcast.
It was 11 months after Luke

747
00:36:55,720 --> 00:36:58,800
died, and it's called Widowed
Too Soon.

748
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,000
And we just literally talked
about everything.

749
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,560
So he's a widower with young
kids, I'm a widow with

750
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,680
teenagers, and we're both under
a year into this journey.

751
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,000
And so we just start talking
about everything and it's been

752
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,080
an amazing journey, meaning
people literally all over the

753
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,840
world that I've talked to that
have said this podcast has

754
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,240
helped them, help them to not
feel alone several times.

755
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,000
I mean, this is what keeps me
going on the podcast.

756
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,760
Four years later I've had people
say I was going to end it all

757
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,760
and then I heard your podcast
and I realized that well, I've

758
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,000
had the same comment about my
book and I was like, OK, that's

759
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,960
enough to keep going.
So after about three years on

760
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,800
the podcast, my Co host left.
And so I was like, OK, maybe I

761
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,040
should just be done.
I don't know, another

762
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,960
supernatural vision.
All of a sudden I'm walking in

763
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,200
my house and I see this just
comes like it this time it's a

764
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,360
picture and it's me handing all
these people like megaphones.

765
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,760
And it was like, there's so many
more people that need to tell

766
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,080
their story.
You can't quit now.

767
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,840
And so I switched it to a mostly
interview podcast now where

768
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,320
widows and widowers from all
over the world share their

769
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,320
stories.
And so that's been an amazing

770
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,400
thing.
I also wrote a book and that

771
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,480
that was interesting because I
started it six months after Luke

772
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,400
died.
I was in this contest.

773
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,800
I didn't end up winning, but I
wrote 3 chapters and then I just

774
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,800
let it sit there and I'm so glad
I did.

775
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,280
I was a baby widow.
I knew nothing like really

776
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:23,560
compared to what I learned
later.

777
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,920
And so I wrote 27 chapters in
the beginning of 25 January 25.

778
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,880
I was like, OK, we're about to
be at the five year anniversary.

779
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,240
I'm going to finish this on
Luke's death anniversary like

780
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:37,320
I'm going to I'm going to launch
it that day as a way to honor

781
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,560
him.
And so I had a big deadline.

782
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,720
So I wrote the rest of the book
in a couple months.

783
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,000
And widow goals, steps to
finding peace when you lose your

784
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,000
spouse is basically steps that
people can take in any order.

785
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,920
I have people who have not
widowed who've read it that said

786
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,040
it's helped them in their grief.
And it's things like get out of

787
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,800
bed, reenter social spaces
because that's a really hard

788
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,400
one.
Don't be surprised by anxiety.

789
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,200
Kindly inform your friends and
family what to say and not to

790
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,080
say, which has a QR code.
They can download it and send it

791
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,120
to their family and they're
friends.

792
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,200
So it's like, here's what to
say.

793
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,160
Why not to say?
Because there's a lot of that

794
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,080
that's really not easy.
I have, you know, widow specific

795
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,360
chapters like dating again, solo
parenting, which is different

796
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,080
than single parenting.
We don't have anybody else to

797
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,080
bounce ideas off of or go to
another parents house, have an

798
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,720
eternal perspective.
Just to bring that back to like,

799
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,680
let's remember that every
chapter has a verse and every

800
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,920
chapter has questions and action
steps.

801
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,440
And so I created that and I've
had so much good feedback from

802
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,960
that, so much that I then
created a workbook where there's

803
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,000
a space to pray and there's more
extra steps, more questions.

804
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,240
What I found out after I
launched that just a few months

805
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:47,480
ago is that groups were forming
all over to do the book and the

806
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,320
workbook.
So then I was like, I need to

807
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,880
create a leaders guide.
So I actually took a group of

808
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,440
widows through this and created
the leaders guide as I was doing

809
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,240
it and made it into an 11 week
program.

810
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,280
And the point now is anyone,
even someone who's not widowed,

811
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,000
could lead this.
They could literally open the

812
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,520
book.
It tells them what to say, what

813
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,600
kind of questions to ask.
Like all of it.

814
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,680
And my mission right now is to
get it into churches.

815
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,120
I wanted to be like the grief
share for widows.

816
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,360
And when I say widows, I mean
widowers as well.

817
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,360
I've had a lot of widowers tell
me my book has helped them and

818
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,960
it's my mission because widows
are mentioned 103 times in the

819
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,400
Bible, yet so few churches have
any support.

820
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,880
This is what I said on every
podcast.

821
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,080
I just challenge every listener
to go to your church, whoever's

822
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,720
leadership, your pastor
leadership, and say, can you

823
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:36,400
tell me how we support widows
and just let them tell you.

824
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,160
And if there's nothing, I have a
program or do any program like

825
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,600
just get some support for widows
because I heard the statistic.

826
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,840
I don't know if it's true, but
this one, a widow told me that

827
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,320
80% of widows leave the church
after being widowed.

828
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,320
I do know it's high because it
is very, very lonely because

829
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,880
you're seeing families and
couples.

830
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,640
The singles groups are for 20
year olds.

831
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,040
There are great programs like
Celebrate Recovery, divorce

832
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,560
care, like all the stuff that's
great, but what are we doing for

833
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,640
our widows?
What are we doing for the people

834
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,600
that God called us to take care
of?

835
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,120
Like that's huge.
And orphans.

836
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,280
I remember the day I read the
verse that said God is a

837
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,360
defender of widows and a father
to the fatherless.

838
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,720
I was like, oh, that's me and my
kids.

839
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,200
Like he really loves us.
Like that's awesome.

840
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,120
And I have felt this amazing
bond with God, like since being

841
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,600
widowed, especially before being
remarried, that it was just

842
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,560
like, he's like my husband as
far as like every decision and

843
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,640
every, everything.
It's just up to me and him.

844
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,080
I don't have another person in,
you know, to bounce it off of.

845
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,360
So that's my like big mission
right now is getting that in to

846
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:46,400
churches and helping them to see
we need to be doing something

847
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,640
and most churches are not.
So remember, God promised me

848
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,080
that he'd redeem and restore
everything I lost in my

849
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,360
marriage.
Fast forward about a year after

850
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,040
Luke died, I was kind of at that
place.

851
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,400
I was kind of ready to start
dating.

852
00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:04,440
And across my Facebook, it was
like someone you may know.

853
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,800
And it said Joel.
And I was like, I kind of

854
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,600
remember him from college.
So remember college.

855
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,680
The turtle isn't gonna come back
in my story later.

856
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,200
You did mention that.
Yeah, so Joel and I had met in

857
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,520
college.
We were friends.

858
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:17,680
We even have all these pictures
together.

859
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,760
Like more like acquaintances.
Never really close, but I

860
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,840
remembered him and so I asked
him to be my friend and we just

861
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,000
started chatting and he was
single.

862
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,960
And then we started Facetiming
and we really like enjoyed

863
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,560
talking.
And so we did like a couple

864
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,120
months of just talking and then
it was like getting more serious

865
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,120
and we decided that we weren't
going to be official until we

866
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,960
saw each other because we
haven't seen each other in 20

867
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,280
years.
He was in Louisiana, I'm in

868
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:48,760
Washington and we Facetimed for,
you know, two months before he

869
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,440
came out here.
He had family in the area.

870
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,520
So he was going to visit them
for Thanksgiving and also meet

871
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,280
me.
And I, we actually, I'm like, I

872
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,040
don't know why our first meeting
was with our kids.

873
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,880
It was a little awkward.
We met at an Applebee's.

874
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,360
He brought his son and I had my
3 kids and my daughter videoed

875
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:05,640
it for us.
It's really cute.

876
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,000
But he was late because he's
trying to get his rental car and

877
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,520
all this.
And my son, he was, I think 13

878
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,560
at the time, my youngest, maybe
14.

879
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:14,200
And he was like, maybe he's not
coming.

880
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,240
You know, guys do that.
You might just not show us.

881
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,320
And I was like, no, he flew from
Louisiana.

882
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,920
He is coming.
Out of the mouth of babes,

883
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,040
right?
Yeah, So he did come and it

884
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,920
ended up being amazing.
It was awkward with the kids.

885
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,200
And then we had our own date and
he told me he loved me.

886
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,560
And it was just like kind of
fast track from there.

887
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,600
Like, how do we figure out how
to get our lives together?

888
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,520
It's much harder dating in your
40s than in your 20s.

889
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,160
He has four kids.
I have 3.

890
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,080
Like, there's so much.
He's divorced by widow.

891
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,520
There's like so much that goes
into all of that.

892
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,200
And it was a miracle that it all
worked out.

893
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,640
And we actually got engaged.
We went to the homecoming of our

894
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,240
college.
My best friend came to and he

895
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,280
came and he had told me like we,
I knew we were going to get

896
00:43:58,280 --> 00:43:59,720
engaged.
He's like, I don't have the ring

897
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:01,360
yet.
We're not getting engaged.

898
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,880
But it was flown in to my, my
best friend.

899
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,960
Her family lives there and they
sent it to her house.

900
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,400
And what's also beautiful,
because it takes a very special

901
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,640
man to love a widow, is that he
respects my love for Luke so

902
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,840
much that I had given him the
wedding band.

903
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,160
So I knew he was going to do
this like from Luke.

904
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,800
And I still have the ring that's
for my daughter, but the band he

905
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,520
had it melted down and had the
diamonds from that ring put in

906
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,440
my ring from him.
So when he proposed, he said

907
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,120
this ring is from both men who
love you.

908
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,880
And it's just like, isn't that
beautiful?

909
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:38,520
Like it takes a special man to
be able to not be threatened

910
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,160
because I've seen my friends who
date with people who don't get

911
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,040
it, like they're jealous and all
of this.

912
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,680
Like we have pictures of Luke.
We talk about Luke.

913
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,160
I talk about Luke like every day
on podcasts.

914
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,680
And my whole ministry is widows
and he's good with that.

915
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,440
I post about Luke like he's,
he's good with all that.

916
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,440
So we got engaged at our
college, which was just amazing

917
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,680
to where we first met and then
was figuring out life.

918
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,600
And we got married March 18th of
23.

919
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:07,440
And it's been the most amazing
thing because I could not do

920
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,680
what I do now because I was a
full time teacher.

921
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,400
No way could I financially do
this right now.

922
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:15,440
And so because we're married, I
now can.

923
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,400
And he's like, no, I work so
that you can do what you're

924
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,960
doing.
It's such important work, even

925
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,160
said to me, so he was a
missionary in Brazil.

926
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,400
He grew up there and then he
went back later in life with his

927
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,640
kids and he lived there for
seven years doing mission

928
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,320
aviation, all this stuff.
But he said to me one day, I

929
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,200
think we're we're helping more
people now than when I was a

930
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,640
missionary.
Like by you doing all the stuff

931
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,040
with widows, like we're reaching
more people.

932
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,360
You know, I have this sticker on
my computer that says go into

933
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,960
all the world and preach the
good news to remind me that we

934
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,720
as podcasters are fulfilling the
Great Commission.

935
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,800
And like, we're doing that from
home.

936
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,880
What a great time to live, to be
alive.

937
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,400
We're like literally reaching
people in countries all over the

938
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,720
world.
And so I am so thankful that God

939
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:06,520
brought our marriage together
and it was like it had to be a

940
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,280
very special person to like
support all of this, like

941
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,800
emotionally, spiritually,
financially, like all of it so

942
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,280
that I can do what I do.
And I've been so blessed to have

943
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,240
him in my life and have somebody
who really gets this.

944
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:22,840
And he's been great with my kids
from the beginning.

945
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,800
He said, I'm never going to try
to be your dad.

946
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,040
I am just another support person
in your life, you know, and

947
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,800
they've respected that.
He does Bible studies with my

948
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,320
youngest, which is beautiful.
And like he gives me flowers on

949
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,240
the death anniversary of, of
Luke and I go put the flowers

950
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,880
from Joel on Luke's grave.
Like at our wedding, we

951
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,240
actually, I, I watched another
widow do this.

952
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:47,240
And when someone who's divorced
and widowed get married, there's

953
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,720
grief on both sides.
And so we wanted to acknowledge

954
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,440
it.
So right after I walked down the

955
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,560
aisle, I took the microphone and
said, we want to acknowledge

956
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,960
whatever you're feeling today
because both families have been

957
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,080
through grief to be here.
And so it's OK.

958
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Grief and joy can coexist.
And we just wanted to basically

959
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,040
talk about the elephant in the
room.

960
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,000
Like, this week, sadness had to
come, a death of a family and a

961
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,760
death of a father.
And so we acknowledge all of

962
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,960
that today.
And it was such a weird feeling.

963
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,080
I went to Luke's grave the day
before I got married and was

964
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,920
just, like, crying.
And just like this doesn't mean

965
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,000
that I don't love you, you know,
It's just going through all of

966
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,680
those emotions.
But what I tell people is like,

967
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,560
OK, when you have a child and
you think I will never love

968
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,880
another child as much as this
child and you have another one,

969
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,080
your love multiplies.
That's what I feel like with

970
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,960
Luke and Joel.
I still love Luke, I love Joel.

971
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,480
I love them both.
Like, they're different loves.

972
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,760
They're different relationships,
but I love them both, you know?

973
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,480
And in the beginning, I remember
especially my boys, they were

974
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,560
like, well, he's so different
than daddy because he is night

975
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:50,800
and day.
I'm like, that's OK.

976
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,880
Like I can love somebody
completely different, you know,

977
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,320
but they, they really do respect
them.

978
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,440
I wouldn't say they're all like
super close, but it's good.

979
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,400
There's nothing like negative
with it.

980
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,280
But it's a whole different world
when you're blending families

981
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,520
and all of the stuff that goes
with it.

982
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,120
And people often say in my
widows groups, like, I would

983
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,440
only marry someone widowed
because they're the only ones

984
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:14,960
that get it.
I'm like, no, make it about the

985
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,360
person, not about whether
they're divorced or widowed, you

986
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,880
know, make it like about because
they could be somebody like my

987
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,920
husband who completely gets it,
although he's not widowed.

988
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,960
He he holds space for me.
He'll be like, OK, is this a are

989
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:29,600
you grieving?
Do I need to get, you know,

990
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,320
he'll just, I mean, he did that
the other day is something he

991
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,560
just was like, did that bring
you grief?

992
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,640
I don't remember what it was.
And I was like, no, but thanks

993
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,520
for asking.
Like he's very sensitive to

994
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,240
anything.
So yeah, my life is not what I

995
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:45,320
thought it would be.
And what I've taught my kids and

996
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,760
what I believe is that God's
hands touch everything.

997
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,680
So he doesn't cause sickness and
death, but he allows it.

998
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,520
His hands have touched
everything.

999
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,200
He either allows it or he causes
it.

1000
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,000
So if God allowed it, I can
accept it.

1001
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,120
I heard a sermon with that when
Luke was sick.

1002
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,600
And so I really was like, OK,
God allowed this.

1003
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,760
I can accept it, you know?
And I have truly seen God take

1004
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,080
my morning and turn it to
dancing and truly seen beauty

1005
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,480
from ashes.
And so that's like my whole life

1006
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,520
mission now is to help other
people.

1007
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,360
And people have asked me, I get
this question on that.

1008
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,040
Why do you still do all this
widow stuff?

1009
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,520
You're married again.
Like, well, because I know what

1010
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:26,480
it feels like.
Yeah.

1011
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,040
I don't have to.
I don't have the feeling of

1012
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,720
being widowed.
I do have a husband to go home

1013
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,120
to.
But I know what it's like.

1014
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,560
And it's a very lonely place.
And so I want to pour into those

1015
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,840
people who might not have
anyone, anyone at all, to be

1016
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,800
able to help them know it gets
better 'cause I called a few,

1017
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,800
you know, the widows that I did
know and asked them if it would

1018
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,440
get better.
That's all I wanted to know.

1019
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,040
And so that's my mission is to
help people know that and to

1020
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,920
educate people about grief
'cause there's so many myths and

1021
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,040
like so many things that are
wrong about grief, that people,

1022
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,600
you know, don't have any
education.

1023
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,880
And so I try to educate not only
the grievers, but the support

1024
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,240
people because they don't know
what to say.

1025
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,160
One of the biggest things that
support people can do is write

1026
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,760
down.
It doesn't have to be a widowed.

1027
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,840
Write down the date that someone
you love has lost their person

1028
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,600
and put it in your calendar and
text or call them every year

1029
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,000
because every year that goes by
it gets lonely or your like

1030
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,920
people don't remember.
I'm sure you can relate to this.

1031
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,920
And it's like they forget.
I mean, even the first year, my

1032
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,400
best friend who had drove to be
with me on that day, she forgot

1033
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,400
and I told her that that was
really hard.

1034
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,080
So she put it in her phone and
she never forgets now.

1035
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,040
And I tell people that's really
important to do because it's so

1036
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,440
lonely when no one gets it.
I have a system where I collect

1037
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:48,640
emails and all those dates from
widows.

1038
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,360
And so on those dates, I send
them an e-mail that I'm like

1039
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,720
praying over them.
And I said prayer transcends all

1040
00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:55,200
space and time.
So you're being prayed for right

1041
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,240
now.
And I get so many return emails.

1042
00:50:58,240 --> 00:50:59,200
Thank you.
You're the only one that

1043
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,600
remembered.
Thank you so much.

1044
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,560
Nobody remembered.
And I kind of, I have this big

1045
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,440
vision, Joel helped me come up
with this, that I want to add

1046
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,880
something on the form that says
the name of their church and a

1047
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,080
contact person contact their
church about a week before and

1048
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,400
let them know, hey, there's a
widow that's going to have this

1049
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,360
date if someone could reach out
from your church.

1050
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,640
But honestly, I'm a little
scared that the church will drop

1051
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,320
the ball.
So what if the widows put all

1052
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,560
their information in and that
people at the church don't do

1053
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:24,960
anything?
Then I'm going to feel worse

1054
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,600
about it.
So I'm trying to figure out how

1055
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,960
to make that all work.
But I really just want people to

1056
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,040
understand, like, we need to
take care of our widows.

1057
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:37,920
And yeah, so I guess that's my
story in a nuts 51 minute nuts.

1058
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:43,800
Thank you.
You're welcome.

1059
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,040
Thank you.
There's so much there.

1060
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:56,320
I do have some questions for
you, but young lady, oh man, I'm

1061
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,800
so sorry about Luke.
I know I've said it on your show

1062
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:06,000
and when we've talked, but thank
you for sharing so transparently

1063
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:06,760
today.
You're.

1064
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:13,400
Welcome man.
For those that aren't fully

1065
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:18,720
clear as to why Michelle has
been alluding to grief, our

1066
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:22,760
first born was a full term still
birth and his name was Luke.

1067
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,680
So different than Michelle and
her grief, but similar to

1068
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,040
Michelle and her grief.
And Michelle and I have had some

1069
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,640
other conversations about all
that.

1070
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,000
So that's what she's talking
about.

1071
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:43,760
Well, just a few moments ago you
talked about God causes things

1072
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,320
versus God allows things.
Because guys, because God allows

1073
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:53,200
it, I can accept it.
Help us understand how you were

1074
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,560
able to or what got you to the
point where you could accept it.

1075
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,480
I mean, it was just kind of
like, what other choice do I

1076
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,200
have?
Like, I can't do anything about

1077
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:09,160
this, so why fight it and be
angry and all these things.

1078
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,800
I was like, I, I don't have a
choice in this.

1079
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,360
Like this.
The first time I heard it, like

1080
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,280
on the ceremony was sick.
It was like, this is going to

1081
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,480
happen.
So we just need to accept it and

1082
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,560
accept that this is what God's
plan is.

1083
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,480
I don't like it at all,
especially that, you know,

1084
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,480
anticipatory grief.
I don't like this.

1085
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,760
I don't want this to happen, but
it's going to happen.

1086
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:33,920
So why not accept it and then
see how God can use it rather

1087
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,000
than just sitting here and
feeling sorry for myself.

1088
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,920
And you know, there is the part
where you do need to grieve and

1089
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,720
all of that, but you also don't
want to stay stuck in it where

1090
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:47,280
you're just like paralyzed.
But instead say, God, how can

1091
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,920
you use this?
Who can I help?

1092
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,560
Who can I help?
That needs some hope right now.

1093
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,920
And we can all do that.
Whatever we've been through, we

1094
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,200
can look at it and go, OK, God,
show me who I can help with this

1095
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:03,280
from what I've learned.
Yeah, I think you were alluding

1096
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,520
in that too.
I stopped resisting it.

1097
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,520
Yeah, Yeah, I guess you could
say that.

1098
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,240
I know it's sort of the other
side of acceptance in a way,

1099
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:14,720
right?
The coin of acceptance.

1100
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:19,440
Right.
Yeah, well, you were also

1101
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,880
talking about grief and joy
being able to coexist.

1102
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:29,640
You were talking about this in
the context of the wedding, but

1103
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,000
I think we both know that it can
exist beyond that.

1104
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,640
So tell us more about all that
that concept.

1105
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:41,240
Yeah, there's so much of that.
First of all, people usually

1106
00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:44,240
feel, in my experience, a lot of
people feel guilty the first

1107
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,200
time they have joy after their
loved one dies.

1108
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,160
How can I laugh?
My husband died, and you have to

1109
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:52,960
let go of that.
And first of all, they'd want

1110
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,240
you to be happy.
God wants you to not be stuck in

1111
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,720
that.
God wants you to have joy.

1112
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,000
But as far as yeah, there's a
lot of, I have a lot of

1113
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,880
bittersweet things that are very
beautiful, but yet there's

1114
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,440
sadness for me now.
It's mostly about my kids as

1115
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,720
they're growing up.
There's kind of a second grief

1116
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:14,080
that happens when kids lose
their parents when they become

1117
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,480
adults, they have more grief.
Like my oldest was like, no

1118
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,040
offense, but I wish daddy was
here to talk to him.

1119
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:20,520
Like, I know, I wish he was
here.

1120
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,760
You know, he's making decisions
about college and like all the

1121
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,800
things.
And so there's so many joy and

1122
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:31,000
grief moments with my kids, like
basically everything, you know,

1123
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,320
all the big stuff.
Like they all got their licenses

1124
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,080
after him.
They to have graduated high

1125
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,640
school ones about to, you know,
those moments.

1126
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,840
My daughter talks about it like,
you know, he's not going to be

1127
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,960
there on my wedding day.
And she, she told me, I might

1128
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,720
have told you this in the last
time we talked that she said

1129
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:51,600
someday when she has a son, he's
going to be named Luke.

1130
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,160
And I was like, that is
beautiful.

1131
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,280
But she's like, she told me this
like a week ago, like I'm, I'm

1132
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,960
sad all the time at the things
he's missing And like, I know,

1133
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:02,800
but this is what I believe.
I, I do not have biblical

1134
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,120
backing.
I'm going to share what I

1135
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,040
believe.
So God says that we, you know,

1136
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,280
in heaven, there's no pain,
there's no sorrow.

1137
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:13,320
He also talks about the great
cloud of witnesses, which I

1138
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,320
believe could be people like our
loved ones cheering us on.

1139
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,120
So this is what I think that you
know how like horses have

1140
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:24,320
blinders.
Like I believe they can see down

1141
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,080
our beautiful moments and they
they're just blocked out of any

1142
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,760
sadness.
Like that's what I think they

1143
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,320
put on these like glasses that
don't allow them to see sadness,

1144
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,960
but they can say the beautiful
moments.

1145
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,880
And I don't believe our people
talk to us, but I believe that

1146
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,560
God shows us little signs and
little things like I ask for it

1147
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,600
all the time.
I didn't ask for like Luke to

1148
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,480
talk to me because I don't
believe that's how it works.

1149
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:49,240
But especially in the beginning
and people could say, oh, that's

1150
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:52,840
not God, but I believe it was.
Every time we would take a

1151
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,640
picture, there was a stream of
light like on one of us.

1152
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:56,960
Like you couldn't see when
you're taking it.

1153
00:56:57,240 --> 00:56:59,880
You saw it afterwards.
Every all three of them, OK, got

1154
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,400
they got their driver's licenses
all two years apart.

1155
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,080
Every single one of them stream
of light as I take a picture of

1156
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,000
them, they're on their first
drive.

1157
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,880
Like I believe it's God saying
like he can see this.

1158
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,880
Like, this is cool.
Like, I'm, you know, I, I don't

1159
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,640
know, there were graduation
pictures like that.

1160
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,880
I mean, like so many things.
And, you know, my kids all

1161
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,840
believe that.
Now my oldest is like, I don't

1162
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,040
know if that's true.
And he's really in a place of

1163
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,960
doubting his faith and trying to
figure out what he believes.

1164
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,480
But I'm like, no, I believe it.
You know, And they were just,

1165
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,000
there were so many things in the
beginning that I was like, yeah,

1166
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,440
I believe that your dad can see
this.

1167
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,400
And so for me, it's like
basically any special moment.

1168
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,960
I just went to my daughter's
college concert.

1169
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:40,440
She's in choir, has an amazing
voice.

1170
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:43,360
Bittersweet.
Like, I wish you could see her

1171
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,280
doing all of this.
And maybe he can, you know, and

1172
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:50,440
just every moment, just little
things.

1173
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,400
My youngest is going to turn 18,
you know, and just.

1174
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,800
There's a lot of secondary grief
also.

1175
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,760
It's like you were going to have
this whole life together.

1176
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,280
You were going to have and even,
you know, losing a baby, you

1177
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:03,400
were going to have all these
things.

1178
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,040
And so there's secondary grief
that kind of goes on forever.

1179
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,520
You'll have those pieces of
like, oh, you know, for me, the

1180
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,520
hardest day besides his death
anniversary is our would be

1181
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:14,640
anniversary.
Like it hit me hard.

1182
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:17,360
So I had just married Joel, but
it was my twenty year

1183
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,200
anniversary.
It would have been like a few

1184
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,480
months after married with Luke
and I had a really hard day,

1185
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,080
even though I'm happily married
to Joel.

1186
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:25,120
I was like, what would we be
doing?

1187
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,240
We'd be on a big trip.
Like if you'd never gotten sick,

1188
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,800
where would we be?
But I find a lot of joy and

1189
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,480
grief at the same time.
It's an interesting feeling.

1190
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,400
I had it December 1st.
It was the anniversary of when

1191
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,760
he proposed to me.
You know it, it was a beautiful,

1192
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,240
you know, that day, there was
nothing wrong with it.

1193
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,800
But then I was feeling sadness
because I missed him and

1194
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,040
thinking about the day and it
will just hit me and I have

1195
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:53,720
dreams about him and I wake up
sad and, you know, just all of

1196
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,840
the things.
So you just kind of learn to

1197
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,440
live with it and then it doesn't
take you out for very long.

1198
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,600
And the best advice I give
people to is to feel it.

1199
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,440
Because what we feel, God can
heal.

1200
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,560
If we're not feeling it, he's
not going to heal it.

1201
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,120
And so let yourself feel it.
So I let myself feel the grief

1202
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,080
waves.
I know this too shall pass.

1203
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,440
It's not going to last that long
and it's going to be OK.

1204
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,560
So I think it's really important
in your grief to feel it and

1205
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,680
feel the joy as well.
It's OK Don't stuff down the

1206
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,640
joy.
It's OK to be joyful and happy.

1207
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,560
And you know, there's a lot of
that in the beginning of dating.

1208
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,120
There is a lot of guilt too,
like, oh, is this OK?

1209
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:30,760
I went through that.
It's like, no, you have to

1210
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,760
release that.
Like, you know, I fulfilled my

1211
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,960
vows.
I would still be married to him

1212
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,680
if he hadn't died.
But I don't think I'm expected

1213
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,400
to just be single the rest of my
life.

1214
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,720
If you know, I, I know God wants
me to be married.

1215
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,520
He gave me that vision.
So yeah, there's a lot of joy

1216
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,640
and grief together, a lot of
days.

1217
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,160
Yeah.
Wow, man, you brought so much

1218
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,800
clarity to that though.
Thank you.

1219
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,040
You're welcome.
Wow.

1220
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:06,920
Oh, Michelle.
Man, there's so much here I want

1221
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,920
to better understand.
And I, this is for me, this is

1222
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,440
for our listeners as well.
I think that, man, this is for

1223
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,560
everybody.
Tell us more.

1224
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:21,360
Help us better understand.
It's a gift to be in somebody's

1225
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,040
life.
Yes, yes, it's especially when

1226
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,640
you've lost someone, you realize
how precious every moment is.

1227
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,680
But I think, yeah, we can take
that vision that God gave me and

1228
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,080
realize that anyone, it doesn't
have to be someone who died like

1229
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,400
anyone who's in you, have a
relationship with God placed you

1230
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:43,960
there.
Even if it's not someone that's

1231
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,920
easy to love, like God placed
you there.

1232
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,800
When you realize that when you
actually think of like the God

1233
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,960
of the universe, like placed you
in this person's life, it's a

1234
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:57,800
gift, you know, and to really
spend time with people and make

1235
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,320
sure they know that you love
them.

1236
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,360
And take a lot of pictures.
That's another one I tell

1237
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,120
people, you know, you never know
when it's like your last picture

1238
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,000
with someone.
But really just realizing that

1239
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:09,600
relationships are a gift from
God.

1240
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,880
He didn't have to give us
relationships, but he did, which

1241
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,920
I believe they will continue in
heaven.

1242
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,000
Like we'll continue to have
those relationships, but they're

1243
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,440
going to be perfect.
No misunderstandings, no hurt

1244
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,160
feelings, all of that stuff.
But I think it's, yeah, just

1245
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,600
realizing that every single
person in your path, you know,

1246
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,400
that's in your life is a gift
and that you're chosen.

1247
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,920
Tell us more, though, about how
he made that clear to you.

1248
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,080
Well, that was the vision, you
know, that I had.

1249
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:46,200
It was well, just this moment of
a crown being put on my head and

1250
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,120
saying I chose you.
Like it just became clear during

1251
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:57,920
that vision that I was chosen
for this life, like a really

1252
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:00,400
hard life, but that it was his
plan.

1253
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,920
And so, yeah, just that moment
is really what made it clear to

1254
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,640
me.
What was it like to hear that

1255
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:11,360
because of how hard it had been
for you to to that that life?

1256
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,160
Sorry, let me be clear.
Knowing of course, because

1257
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,480
you're looking back on a very,
very hard life for many years,

1258
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,480
lots of sacrifice.
And what is it like to hear from

1259
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,200
God through the Holy Spirit that
I chose you for that?

1260
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:32,200
Like a privilege and, you know,
loved.

1261
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,720
Like I chose you.
I'm proud of you and it made it

1262
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,800
all worth it.
My son asked me literally I

1263
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:44,960
think last week, if you knew on
your wedding day to daddy that

1264
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,520
he was going to die and
everything you go through, would

1265
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,320
you still do it?
And I said a million times, yes,

1266
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,600
because he made me who I am
today.

1267
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,320
I wouldn't have you and your
siblings.

1268
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,600
I wouldn't be doing the ministry
that God called me to do because

1269
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,360
I don't think I could do it.
I don't think I could do.

1270
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,960
I'm like, but you could, you
know, I've had other people ask

1271
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,720
me that too, You know, if you
would, you would do it.

1272
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,520
I'm like, yes, now it would be
harder to know ahead of time.

1273
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,240
Definitely.
Like if I was 24 years old and

1274
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:17,640
then saw my life now and like
all it had, it would be harder

1275
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,760
to know.
Like I don't want to know ahead

1276
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:23,440
of time, right?
It's easier to look back instead

1277
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:25,320
of like, because if we knew
everything was about to happen,

1278
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,480
it'd be that anticipated grief.
We'd be just standing there

1279
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,080
waiting for it to hit.
So I think it's better to be

1280
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:35,200
able to just live life as it
comes and enjoy every moment and

1281
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,240
know that in this world, we will
have troubles.

1282
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,000
That's what God says.
Not that we're not going to have

1283
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,920
troubles.
We will have troubles, but he

1284
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:43,960
promises that he will never let
us drown.

1285
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:48,240
He will never let us burn up
like he will be there with us

1286
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,360
through the trials, through the
excuse me, through the fire.

1287
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,480
And yeah, that he's always going
to be with us, even though it's

1288
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,360
very difficult, such a hard.
Life.

1289
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,200
Yeah.
Well, I have one more question

1290
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,360
for you.
Before we ask our kind of normal

1291
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:11,400
landing the plane questions, I'd
really like to understand more

1292
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:18,520
about Bentley, the role that he
has played post Luke dying.

1293
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:23,200
Oh I love Bentley, he is now
almost 6.

1294
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,480
So yeah, Bentley is a golden
doodle full of energy and we

1295
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,120
thought he would like grow out
of it but he's still just like a

1296
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,360
puppy.
But he like loves

1297
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:38,400
unconditionally and I even
remember before Luke died I

1298
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,640
remember.
This is going to sound crazy

1299
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,440
but.
And I have never publicly shared

1300
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,000
this, but like I was crying
really hard and I looked into

1301
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,760
Bentley's eyes and I swear it
was Jesus's eyes like in, in a

1302
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,720
dog, like comforting me.
Like I can't explain it other

1303
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,200
than like your eyes like they're
kind of like this is like

1304
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,840
Jesus's eyes.
And it just, he gave me such

1305
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,280
comfort.
And then I just remember so many

1306
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,520
times laying on him.
He's soaking in my tears just

1307
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:11,160
being such a light to the kids,
you know, really helping them.

1308
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,520
Like he just, he's still every
time we come home like he's so

1309
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:15,720
excited he pees on the floor
like he hasn't gotten over that.

1310
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,400
But he loves us that much.
It is a little annoying

1311
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,760
sometimes but like he is so
excited.

1312
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:24,720
Like it's this unconditional
love.

1313
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:29,040
Like every time we come home and
even like the day he died, I

1314
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,400
remember the neighbors took him.
But like him when we got home

1315
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,680
and him coming back and just
like, and he knew, OK, like he

1316
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:38,440
knew something was up.
Like he comfort us.

1317
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,040
But I'm telling you, this is
another weird thing that

1318
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,440
happened.
We had it was like a drawing of

1319
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,800
Luke that actually one of my old
students had grown up and she

1320
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:48,080
became an artist.
I had her draw it for the

1321
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:50,480
celebration of life.
It's up on the Mantel on our

1322
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,800
fireplace.
He's staring at it, barking one

1323
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,200
day like it was so weird.
And we'd like where's Daddy?

1324
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,440
And he was like barking.
And it was like he reckoned it

1325
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,760
never happened again.
But it was like this very

1326
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,000
strange.
And for a while, be like,

1327
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,880
where's Daddy?
And he look around and like

1328
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:07,440
sometimes still, if we say
daddy, like, he'll kind of like

1329
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,240
look around.
And I don't know.

1330
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:11,640
God has given us such a gift in
animals, right?

1331
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,600
I didn't know I'd never owned
one as an adult until Bentley.

1332
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:19,360
And he's definitely a just
really helped us through a

1333
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:24,040
really hard season and just such
a light like my kids love him so

1334
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,080
much.
My daughter says think she

1335
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,080
misses most at college is
Bentley.

1336
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,240
Well and she is a cat too now,
but Bentley the most.

1337
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,760
And so, yeah, he's been an
amazing gift to our family.

1338
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:37,880
And, and I mean, there's so much
more to that too.

1339
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,920
Like he came from Idaho.
My best friend picked him up and

1340
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,360
brought him because he was
cheaper.

1341
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,920
He's like a budget dog and
brought him to us and like

1342
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,160
stayed with us.
And it's just like, there's so

1343
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:52,160
much like it came from her.
And so he just has such a

1344
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:56,480
special place in my life.
And I and now knowing about

1345
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,280
puppies that I didn't know then,
it was a crazy time to take on a

1346
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:00,440
puppy.
Like, I don't think I would

1347
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,960
recommend that to anyone, but he
was a great distraction and he

1348
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,560
would just sit on Luke's lap and
be so calm.

1349
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:09,640
Like he'd be crazy with us, but
calm.

1350
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,000
You know, I, I've watched the
show and it talked about like,

1351
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,120
dogs can sense, especially
cancer and they know, which is,

1352
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:18,520
wow, how?
I don't know, but he was just so

1353
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,120
calm with Luke and just sat
there and just let Luke pet him

1354
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,800
while he read the newspaper.
Luke loved like old school

1355
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,920
reading newspaper and he just
pet him.

1356
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,000
So yeah, he has been a great
blessing to our life.

1357
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,000
So not looking forward to the
day when he dies someday that's

1358
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,720
going to be really hard.
And now I understand why people

1359
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,440
who lose a pet, why it's such a
big deal.

1360
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,760
It is not exactly the animals,
what it's tied to.

1361
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,320
And so when he died, it will
bring up grief about Luke.

1362
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,680
And so now, because I've
actually through grief Recovery,

1363
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,560
it's a program that I've done,
I've helped people with pet

1364
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:52,960
loss.
In the beginning I was like, I

1365
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,440
don't know about that, but I
learned it's tied to all the

1366
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,040
things in their past that the
dog has to do with or the cat or

1367
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,000
whatever.
So I get it now.

1368
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,640
So Bentley's amazing.
Thanks for asking.

1369
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,760
No one's ever asked about him on
a podcast.

1370
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:14,040
Yeah, my wife is a huge dog
lover and I for sure felt

1371
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:16,960
prompted to to ask.
You so.

1372
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,760
Thank you for illuminating all
of that and his blessing.

1373
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:25,399
Well, let's land the plane.
Michelle.

1374
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:31,120
Man, there's just so much here.
And of all that you have

1375
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:35,080
described.
I mean, we've got I, I, I

1376
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,640
literally can't even recap it.
I mean, there's, there's so much

1377
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,960
here, everything that you've
described, you've been talking

1378
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,720
about God as it's been
intertwined, but are there

1379
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:50,200
coincidental things?
Is this coincidence or was this

1380
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,960
all God in action?
1,000,000% it was God.

1381
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,640
Definitely not coincidence I
believe.

1382
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:03,960
Like, yeah, it's God for sure.
Praise God, how has your life

1383
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:07,120
changed based on everything
you've described?

1384
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,960
I know the healing of God, like
he healed my heart.

1385
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,680
I mean, I, I can remember
specifically like listening to

1386
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,960
worship music dancing around to
me like God healed me.

1387
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:19,319
Wow.
Like this is amazing from where

1388
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:23,640
I was to where I am today.
So I've learned to trust God

1389
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:25,319
more.
I've grown a deeper faith.

1390
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:27,760
I believe in supernatural
things.

1391
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,240
Not that I didn't before, I just
hadn't experienced a lot.

1392
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:35,439
And you know, it just has made
me who I am today.

1393
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:40,240
You know, I had to go through
hard things in order to have

1394
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:44,240
this ministry and my first
grief.

1395
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:45,720
I mean, widows retreat I've
done.

1396
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,680
We're about to do our third, the
first one literally, and that

1397
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,600
God speaks to me again.
It's worship time.

1398
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,399
And I'm brought back to Luke's
death bed again.

1399
01:09:53,399 --> 01:09:56,280
I'm like, again.
But he said if that hadn't

1400
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,040
happened, this wouldn't be
happening.

1401
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:00,440
I'm watching these women
worshipping and crying and like

1402
01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:03,200
getting healing.
And I was like, whoa, wow.

1403
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,360
Not that I would ever want Luke
to die, but God is a master at

1404
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,680
taking things that are broken
and making something new that's

1405
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,880
beautiful.
And so I've seen him do that in

1406
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:16,280
my life over and over.
And I like to use this

1407
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,840
illustration to it.
That same grief retreat we had

1408
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,080
everybody come in like when they
first got there and we had these

1409
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,480
little flower pots and we said
paint a picture.

1410
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:25,960
We like paint markers of what
your life looked like before

1411
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:27,800
your husband died.
So of course they're already

1412
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,840
crying.
I I just draw a picture of my

1413
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,160
complete family, all the stuff.
And then later we say break

1414
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:35,000
them.
Now this is the moment they died

1415
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,080
very emotional.
So they break them and then we

1416
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,480
give them, we have all the
leaders act as Jesus and give

1417
01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:44,720
them these beautiful like glass
beads, different things and

1418
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,120
said, you know, your life will
never be the same, but it can be

1419
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,800
beautiful in a new way.
And they put together the broken

1420
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,400
pieces and the new glass pieces
and it maybe it's like beautiful

1421
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:57,880
coasters they got to take home
to remind them that it will

1422
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,120
never be the same because people
are like, when does it go back

1423
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:01,760
to normal?
It will never go back to normal,

1424
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,400
but you can have a new normal
that's completely beautiful.

1425
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,240
And I have seen God weave those
beautiful pieces into my life

1426
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:10,840
over and over.
One more beautiful thing that I

1427
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,120
have to share.
My daughter is now joining me in

1428
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:15,480
ministry.
She, like I mentioned, has a

1429
01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:17,520
beautiful voice.
She's going to my retreat in

1430
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:21,800
January to lead worship.
On top of that, she is launching

1431
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,400
a ministry for the kids of
widows because she said I wish I

1432
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:26,840
would have had someone to talk
to.

1433
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,640
And so she's starting an
Instagram where it's going to be

1434
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,960
all about sharing how God's
helped her and she's going to

1435
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:36,880
encourage them to DM her.
She can't do like mine's

1436
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:38,440
Facebook groups.
That's not her age.

1437
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:41,440
You know, they're going to be on
Instagram, so she's going to be

1438
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:44,960
singing songs about her dad that
she's written and really helping

1439
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:46,920
them towards healing.
And so it's been such a

1440
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,800
beautiful thing.
And she told me it's because of

1441
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:52,920
what you do And I've seen how
you help people that I know I

1442
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,200
can help people.
And so now she's launching this

1443
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,360
ministry and God spoke to her.
She was at she goes to a

1444
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,760
Christian college and they're at
some prayer night and she felt

1445
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:05,000
like God was like, it's time,
like you need to start helping

1446
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,960
the kids of widows.
And at that exact moment, I had

1447
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:11,280
text her a text from a friend
who said, can I have a number?

1448
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:13,640
We have someone who just lost
her dad, like the exact moment.

1449
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,000
So she was like, okay, it's time
for me to start that.

1450
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,160
And so she's launching that in
January.

1451
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:22,360
And it's just been beautiful to
see the ripple effect that it's

1452
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:24,920
now having on her.
But you know, all the kids are

1453
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:26,520
different.
My oldest doesn't know what he

1454
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:28,480
believes right now.
We're just praying that he will

1455
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,440
find his way back, you know,
that verse like he who began a

1456
01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:34,720
good work and he will be
faithful to complete it.

1457
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,240
Like I know he knows the truth.
He's just got to figure out.

1458
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,320
He's got a lot of anger about
his dad dying and my youngest is

1459
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,520
doing really good spiritually.
Just they all kind of like, you

1460
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:45,840
know, have to find their way in
their grief.

1461
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:49,480
And but anyways, I just think
it's beautiful how how Haley, my

1462
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:53,480
daughter, is now stepping up to
be a leader for the kids of

1463
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:55,560
widows.
And she's going to be speaking

1464
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:57,200
at the retreat and leading
worship.

1465
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,360
And I am so excited to watch her
grow as an adult.

1466
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,400
She'll be 20 in May.
So she's an adult now.

1467
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:05,560
And it's been a beautiful thing.
I mean, of course, we will

1468
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:11,360
always miss Luke, but God has
used this for such a beautiful,

1469
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,360
beautiful ministry to help now
the kids of widows and widows

1470
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:17,680
and just help families basically
all over the world.

1471
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,760
So I can definitely see the
beauty that God has brought.

1472
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:28,520
Praise God.
Yes, man, that is so wonderful,

1473
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:35,480
so wild to, yeah, to, to, to see
the lack of coincidence of the

1474
01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:40,200
timing of text messages, you
know, to you to then to Haley

1475
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,960
and her ministry and other
things.

1476
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:48,840
Yes, it's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing all of

1477
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:52,560
this.
I want people to be able to stay

1478
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:54,880
in contact with you.
So you talked about book and

1479
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,840
podcasts and other things at the
outset.

1480
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,720
So, but we need to absolutely
repeat that.

1481
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,080
So tell us all about all of that
stuff again, please.

1482
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,800
The podcast is called Widow Too
Soon with the number 2 and it

1483
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,840
can be found on any podcast
platform, but everything we

1484
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,360
talked about can be found on
widowgoals.org.

1485
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,080
So the support program, it'll
say Widow support program.

1486
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,680
Click on that.
It's actually a 2 minute video

1487
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,360
to your pastors about why we
need this and it's a whole page

1488
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,760
about the program and they can
get a discount and all of that

1489
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,320
stuff.
We have a retreat information.

1490
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,720
We have a page that tells where
all the cities are that have

1491
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,760
groups and there's links to my
book.

1492
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:37,280
My book Widow Goals can be found
on Amazon and there's also links

1493
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:40,240
on that page and you can e-mail
me michelle@widowgoals.org.

1494
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,400
Find me on social media Widow
Goals, it's pretty easy.

1495
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:48,240
It's the same thing everywhere.
Yeah, widow goals.

1496
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,600
We'll link to all of that, but
there you go folks, for those of

1497
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,960
you that are listening and not
watching and listening.

1498
01:14:54,960 --> 01:15:02,600
So oh, Michelle, thank you.
Thank you for all the tears that

1499
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:06,160
I got even to shed in this one.
I mean, and the laughter.

1500
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:12,040
Thank you for loving Luke.
Thank you for loving Joel.

1501
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,520
Thank you for loving King Jesus
and your kids.

1502
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:19,720
Thanks for being on When You
Look.

1503
01:15:20,480 --> 01:15:21,800
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.

1504
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:30,520
Was it coincidence or God?
You decide for yourself, but I

1505
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,320
believe you just heard a story
for His glory.

1506
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:39,760
When You Look is powered by
stories just like this and yours

1507
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:43,800
could be next.
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a Guest

1508
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,280
or use the link in the
description below.

1509
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:51,120
Drop us a comment and share this
episode with somebody that needs

1510
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:54,080
it.
Until next time, thanks a bunch

1511
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,880
for listening and watching, and
God bless.