I Tried to Destroy Everything The Night We Buried Our Daughter | Walker Hayes | 061

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That night I got in our car and
I drove to this bar.

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I just wanted to blow it up,
dude.

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I I had already known what I was
going to order.

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I was going to sit down.
I wanted to just get in a fight.

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I wanted to break every window
in that bar.

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I wanted blood on my arms.
I just wanted to go to battle.

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I opened my door and my wallet
wasn't there.

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I was so pissed.
So I drove home and man, when I

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walked up the stairs, I'll never
forget it.

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I can see it right now.
Walked up the stairs and looked

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through our doorway.
Welcome to When You Look, where

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ordinary people share their
extraordinary experiences and

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you get to decide, was it
coincidence or God?

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Hey everyone, it's Mick
Wineholt, host of When You Look.

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You're about to hear my
incredible conversation with

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country music star Walker Hayes.
But for this episode, I didn't

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ask Walker to introduce himself,
so here's a little background on

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him.
A native of Mobile, AL, Walker

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Hayes broke into the mainstream
in 2021 with his smash hit Fancy

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Like, which topped every country
music sales and streaming chart.

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It spent more than six months at
the number one spot on the

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Billboard Hot Country Songs
chart, hit the top five on

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Billboard's Hot 100 Songs and
hit #1 at country radio.

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Fancy Like became a bona fide
phenomenon and that six time

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platinum selling single
propelled Hayes to a Grammy

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Award nomination and anchored
his breakout 2022 full length

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album called Country Stuff.
The album?

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Hayes is one of the top selling
and top streamed artist in

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country music, including 2.9
million monthly listeners on

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Spotify, and he's performed his
music to amphitheaters and

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arenas on headlining tours.
He's also performed to national

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audiences on Good Morning
America, The Tonight Show

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Starring Jimmy Fallon and the
Today Show.

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It's fair to say that Walker is
famous, and yet the conversation

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you're about to hear reveals his
character and his authenticity.

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Enjoy Walker Hayes I should say
V Walker Hayes.

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Welcome to When You Look man.
Really grateful to have you on.

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Dude, thanks for having me so so
good to meet meet you and really

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looking forward to today just
chatting with you.

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Follow your heart. 1000%, man.
Yeah, appreciate that.

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Well, I'm excited to get into
your story because frankly it's

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incredible and it's also one
that's been lived very publicly

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and very authentically.
And I'm just delighted for what

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you're about to share.
So let's get right into it.

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As you and I were chatting, man,
take us back to the days of

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drinking, back to the days of of
Costco and that type of thing,

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and then we'll kind of walk our
way forward to present day.

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Dude, let's go and always Mick
cut me off If we need to get to

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the point I, I can, I can yap.
And I feel like I'll just say,

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man, your, your presence is so
awesome And I, I feel like we've

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already had a podcast, so let's
just do it again.

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Here we go.
But dude, drinking early

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drinker, 13 years old found that
it healed all that.

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Again, this is in retrospect.
I'm not smart enough at 13 to

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know what it's curing or false,
you know, false identities and

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insecure.
All I know is that I drank a

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beer and I was awesome.
You know, I was, I was funny.

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I was fearless.
You know, I went from shy, maybe

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awkward in those puberty year
to, you know, I just went to

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like, dude, I'll talk to any
girl.

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I don't care, you know, just
give me a Zima and that's it.

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And, and again, these aren't,
you know, that was so sad.

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You know, in retrospect, God had
already made me and I, I, I had

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so much potential and
capability.

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And I honestly, somebody
yesterday asked me, they were

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like, what was your biggest?
I don't know how they said it,

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but like, what was your biggest
hurdle on your journey?

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And I did not even think.
And I just said me, you know,

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and, and they were like, whoa, I
mean, they were taken aback by

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how fast I said that, But I
truly feel that's that is the

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Lord, man.
That's a holy spiritual

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awareness that he keeps, you
know, anointingly with is that

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recognization.
So so I can't point.

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But dude, I drank a lot and I
drank, you know, in in scary

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situations.
I just drank like it was a

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Band-Aid, you know, in life for
everything.

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And let's Fast forward, you
know, my wife and I, I've been

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chasing a musical dream by let's
see, I'm 10 years sober now, so

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this is 2016.
I'm working at Costco.

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I've pretty much alienated me
and my family for many loved

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ones because I just got tired of
the looks on their faces.

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You know, we were always
pregnant, we were always broke

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and I was always still chasing
this like, and when I say Chet,

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you know, it's it wasn't like
chasing is an interesting word.

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I was just doing what I loved,
you know, as I as I kind of

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think I still might be,
regardless of the fruit, what

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whether I'd ever gotten famous,
I think I'd still be making

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music.
I'd probably have to do another

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job, you know, but I just love,
you know, God gave me this.

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I still wake up like a kid every
day and go, man, I get to write

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a song today.
Who know what will it be so?

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But man, drinking, you know,
when you mix drinking with kind

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of burdens of fatherhood, they
they they can somewhat falsely

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numb some of those pressures.
You think you know, they I was a

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really functional alcoholic.
Like had no friends coming up

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saying, man, how many DU is have
you had?

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You know, how many are you, are
you are you abusing your kids or

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why?
You know, there there was no the

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honestly, that was a scary.
You know, I might have I might

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have improved upon that or or
seen an urgency to quit sooner

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had I wrecked my car.
So, you know, you know what I

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mean.
And, and so it was kind of a

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dangerous functional level that
I drank and, and I'm working at

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Costco and we're kind of on this
island, you know.

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And the weird thing is, Mick, we
were happy, you know, that

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that's a lot of thing.
I don't, I don't, we weren't

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like, I wasn't miserable.
I, I was lonely.

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Yeah.
You know, as a, as a man who was

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born, you know, to reach to a
father.

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I didn't have that, you know,
but but I loved my family, you

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know, and I loved Laney and I
loved what I did, but we were

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poor.
And I know when I say poor, I

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mean like America poor, like we
didn't.

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I mean, we have food and, you
know, my kids had clothes and

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plenty of hand me downs and
stuff, but I was definitely

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dragging them to, to places that
I began to look at and go, Hey,

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if it's just me living under a
bridge with a pint of whiskey

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and a guitar, I'm good with the
trash fire, you know, the I'm

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happy.
But we're, we're getting there

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with the kids and it's like, you
know, I'm like, I want them to

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have enough.
You know, when I wanted, I, I

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wanted a different life for
them.

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And so, yeah, man, I mean, it
got pretty bad.

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And then, you know, honestly,
the, the I got sober before I

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got saved.
You know, I, I woke up one day

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at Costco and I just been waking
up.

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It was a really early morning
clock.

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It was like I would have to set
my alarm for 3:00 and I'd clock

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in at 4.
And, you know, as far as I was

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concerned, I just for, for all
the wrong reasons.

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I just, I don't know, I thought
I was bionic, You know, I was

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like, you know, just here,
here's this guy kids climbing

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all over, you know, I'm, I'm the
dad.

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We got one car, you know,
pretty, pretty sharing that

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working, working at Costco from
4:00 AM till about 10:30 eleven

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going and writing songs and then
playing any shows.

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You know, I could.
And a lot of those shows were

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because they offered food, you
know, my family could have a

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table, you know, and they would
and they would, they would take

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care of them.
And yeah.

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And so there a lot of there a
lot of, you know, after many,

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many years of that as a man, you
know, I began to do some kind of

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looking in the mirror going,
Hey, this isn't really, this

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isn't really great, you know,
for the fan.

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But honestly, physically, I woke
up on Saturday and I felt

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poisoned.
I I felt like I would die.

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I felt like my body, you know, I
felt like if I did it one more

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day, I might go to sleep and not
wake up, which is interesting

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because I was, I'm all, I've
always been active love.

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I love sports, you know, I'm
always, but it's honestly to me,

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it's a testament to you just
don't know what somebody next to

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you is going through.
You know, you, I mean, because I

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just don't think that I bled all
the suffering, you know, that

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was going on inside.
Obviously, if I'm drinking that

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much, I'm trying to heal
something spiritually and then

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and then I'm also physically
ailing.

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But you wouldn't look at me and
go all I do that's cancer or

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he's his liver is not, you know,
but dude, I just woke up and I

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felt toxic and and it was, you
know, and I've been hungover

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before in my life.
It wasn't that it wasn't just it

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wasn't just Oh man, I had a
rough night.

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I need a morning off.
You know, it's, this is compiled

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years of just whoa, like I might
die tomorrow.

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And so one day of sobriety
turned into two.

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And then, you know, 2 was very
convincing.

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I was like, I kind of feel
better.

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I'm going to go 2 days.
And then I began to wait.

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You know, again, I'm not saying
for everybody this is the best

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way to get sober, but you know,
I almost got high on sobriety.

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I was like, God, I feel like a
teenager again.

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After a week.
I was like, oh man, I feel

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youthful.
You know, I feel bright eyed and

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then let's go.
Six weeks later.

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Then the hurt, the hurtful
reasons I was drinking, you

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know, began to resurface maybe.
And you go, wow, those are low,

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those hurt.
I don't like that.

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Or do you get on stage and you
go, I'm scared on it, you know,

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I can't believe I can't, I see
how much I was leaning on that

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buzz to just naturally
entertain, you know?

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And so that was a process.
But I don't really, I don't

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really like, even though I don't
necessarily see a lot of those

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reasons as like righteous
reasons for becoming sober, they

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were helpful.
And they and they, they moved me

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forward, you know, they, they
kept me away.

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And so, yeah, here we are, you
know, 10 years later, I'm sober.

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It's, it's it, you know, listen,
man, when I say I'm sober, I

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can't express with the English
language the miracle of that.

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I mean, we Laney and I had
discussed through and through

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the act or the, the, the hurdle
of quitting.

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And I'm telling you, man, I find
my, if I'm, if I'm not self

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aware, someone help me, but I
think I'm pretty reasonable

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individual.
And I was like, I'm telling you,

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there's no way I go without
that, you know, I mean, we had

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come to that point.
We, we, I wasn't like non

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commutative about it.
I wasn't oblivious to my

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families history around
addiction.

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I knew that I that I was under
that shadow and and honestly,

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I'd gotten pretty comfortable
under that shadow where where

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stepping out, that was the
scariest, you know, and then I

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would say things like Delaney,
it's you don't love what's

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happening now, you know, with,
with alcohol as a crutch.

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Trust me, you're not going to
love who is me without it.

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You know, I was like you.
You're you're you're careful

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what you're asking for now, you
know, because I was already a

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crazy even with the numbing like
delays about.

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I mean, I look at pictures and
I'm like, Oh, that's so sad.

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I can just see the drunk like
the lazy eye and I'm like, Oh, I

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was just dead.
And, and, and so man, but I, I

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mean, I'm telling you that is a
even just that you just, you

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just take that room in the
hallway of my testimony or

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story, all supernatural.
No, there is nothing.

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You know, I, I, I wish I could
tell people, hey, here's 7 steps

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to escaping addiction.
It was all God, it was all like

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Star Trek, like it was, it was,
it was of another world.

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It would, I'm telling you, it
was it the, the, the fact that I

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00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,800
am sober.
You asked my wife, you asked my

217
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,440
kids.
I mean, they saw it all, you

218
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,520
know, they, they, they were here
and they, they, they'd be like,

219
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,600
it's crazy.
It was crazy.

220
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,240
It's like 1 dad one day, my dad
was this.

221
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,920
And then all of a sudden it was
different.

222
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:54,240
This, this, this ailment, this,
this thorn was removed.

223
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,360
It was gone.
And now I've ended.

224
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,800
Listen, I've had I've had nights
where I've gone, no one would

225
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,320
know I'm in a hotel.
This hurts.

226
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:10,000
This part of life hurts.
You know, Laney and I are doing

227
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,560
so good.
That hurts.

228
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,400
My job doesn't really like
excite me right now.

229
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,080
You know, this hurts.
I'm doing the math.

230
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,760
I'm kind of, I'm more than
halfway through life.

231
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,160
Maybe, you know, maybe I'm
almost there, you know, and

232
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,480
sometimes that excites me and
sometimes that makes me sad, you

233
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,000
know, But there, there's a lot I
will say.

234
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,520
The addiction is one thing I
understand completely because as

235
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:45,280
you know, Mick, you and I have,
we have similar car collisions

236
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,840
here and life, life will give
you plenty to drink about.

237
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:54,560
And you know, what's cool was
that Jesus knew that 1000%

238
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,960
because he was human.
You know, he was acquainted with

239
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,920
suffering.
So he, we, we're not, we're not

240
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:08,400
ruled and saved by this, this
man who's like, I've never had

241
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,200
a, you know, it's not like he
knows the pain that we're trying

242
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,720
to cure with coffee, with work,
with making our families

243
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,880
perfect, with drinking, with
heroin, with tattoos, with, with

244
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,800
whatever, you know, with every,
it literally everything we do

245
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:29,040
every day.
He knows what we're trying to to

246
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:34,520
blanket ourselves from and the
silly ways that we will try to

247
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,160
do it.
You know, man, thanks a bunch.

248
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,720
I just answered Nick, but there
we go.

249
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,840
That's drinking.
Yeah, no, man, thanks a bunch

250
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,200
for for walking us through that.
One of the things that you said

251
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,280
towards the end of that was that
essentially the thorn was

252
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,000
removed and you talked about how
the kids and your and your wife

253
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,560
get to see one day my dad was
like this and the next day he's

254
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,280
not.
But you opened with, you're not

255
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,280
a Christian at this point, No.
And that's something that

256
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,920
everybody kind of really needs
to hear.

257
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,440
We're going to come back to
that.

258
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:18,319
But through this, right, you've
described getting invited or

259
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,119
Laney getting invited to church
that you didn't really want to

260
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:29,320
go to, and you're sort of buzzed
enough to go along with it

261
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,600
somewhat reluctantly.
And you meet a guy.

262
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,320
Yeah.
Tell us a little bit about.

263
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,760
That oh, yeah.
So.

264
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,920
So this woman named Laura
invited Laney to a church.

265
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,520
Now Laney and I through our
marriage, I think a lot of maybe

266
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,600
maybe everyone can understand
there's, you know, marriages is

267
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:57,160
awesome, but there's, there's a
few things, you know, where

268
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,080
you're like, oh, let's stay away
from that talk.

269
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,800
You know, Laney are highways of
communication and that's been,

270
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,400
that's been a gift.
That is a gift from God that

271
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,360
we're, we're, we're, we're,
we're great at verbally

272
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,320
processing together.
And but that was the thing I

273
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,720
didn't want to talk about.
You know, again, back to that.

274
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,240
I would talk about drink, dude,
let's talk about drinking.

275
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,160
Why Laney, help me?
Why do I want to drink?

276
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,960
You know, why do why do I, why
do I listen to you?

277
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,960
And I know this is probably
poison medicine, you know, but

278
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,920
why am I about to walk to the
fridge and be but and and again,

279
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,520
she, you know, I, it was that
was tough, but I wasn't afraid

280
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,640
of that conversation.
But the God thing, you know,

281
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,200
once you have kids and you begin
to go, one's telling them the

282
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,400
story of Noah's ark and another
one's like, look, kids.

283
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,680
I don't think that's I don't
think the ship was real, you

284
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,280
know what I mean?
And and then you start, you

285
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,760
know, you start hurting each
other's feelings and absolutely,

286
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,400
you know, Laney, Laney's looking
at me saying, you know, in in my

287
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,840
with my fragile ego, she's
undermining me is the man of the

288
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,160
house, whatever stupid the pain
that it was hurting.

289
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,120
And then on on the other hand, I
said a lot of things.

290
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:24,440
You know, sometimes when Laney
and I would fight, I have the,

291
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:30,240
the it's, it's a terrible habit,
but like my sometimes I'll cope

292
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,600
by laughing, which is not
helpful when another one's mad

293
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,560
at you and you laugh.
It just, it makes it even worse.

294
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,120
But I would look at her and say,
you know, did your, did your

295
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:45,360
savior die on the cross?
So you could talk to me this

296
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,240
way, you know, and she and it
just, we would manipulate and I

297
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,720
would use her beliefs and she
would use mine.

298
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,840
And but anyway, man, she got
invited to this church by Laura

299
00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,560
and I wasn't happy about it
because honestly, Laney had kind

300
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,160
of kept it BAE.
The she was a believer, but she

301
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,120
had kept it BAE.
The tasks, the appointments, the

302
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,720
Bible study, you know, we, we
had kind of moved from trying

303
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,920
that.
And so I wasn't happy, man.

304
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,800
I did not want to go to this
church and I.

305
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:21,840
I was like a kid, you know, I
was like, I was making jokes on

306
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,080
the way I was riding in the
passenger's seat and I was

307
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,960
telling the kids I was like,
it's a cult.

308
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,280
You know, they're going to,
they're going to kidnap us.

309
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,720
It's whenever, you know, we
should call someone and tell

310
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,400
them where we are before we get
before we get abducted, you

311
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,600
know, And then and then Laney
even thought that was funny

312
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,400
because it was, you know, it was
a, you know, I think believers,

313
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,600
especially believers that have
grown up basically in the in a

314
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,120
church their whole life.
They just think, hey, come to

315
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,200
this building that's really
pointy and tall and there's a

316
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,160
parking lot and there's lots of
minivans just park, you know,

317
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,520
and walk in next to people in
weird clothes and grab a

318
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,160
bulletin and read it, you know,
and it's like, it's like to you,

319
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,920
that's normal.
To me, I'm like, I don't know

320
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,080
what you know, it feels like
you're getting sold.

321
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,560
I don't know.
It's just not.

322
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:19,160
It is a church is a big deal for
some people to drive and it and

323
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,840
it can also produce like like I
remember that as a kid and this,

324
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:30,120
you know, and so anyway, we
drive up to this church, we walk

325
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,560
in, there's maybe 30 people at
this church.

326
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,560
So when we walk in, you know,
we're we're five kids and at

327
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,480
this point, Laney's pregnant
with six.

328
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,480
We look like a mess, man.
We just we drive up spill in

329
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,320
this church and I reek of
alcohol.

330
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,200
I mean, you know, it, it is.
Here's a church.

331
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,200
The the whole you know that
they're they're singing, you

332
00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,200
know, people with their hands
up, you know, and and I'm and

333
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,600
I'm I'm I just walk in reeking
of alcohol, shaggy hair.

334
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,560
And this this man Craig comes up
and he is Laura's husband.

335
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,280
He's part of the part of the
pastoral team, you know, of this

336
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,120
tiny church.
And he comes up to me and I'm

337
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:26,000
telling you, man, like the other
day, you know, we watched UConn

338
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,080
beat Duke at in March Madness.
That's how excited Craig.

339
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:39,160
I mean, he literally like dude,
I mean he is like losing his

340
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,840
mind and so excited so physical.
Again, like this is another.

341
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,560
I'm not a touchy feely guy.
I mean, I want to hug my kids.

342
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,240
I want to hug my wife, but
that's it.

343
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,800
I've never had a massage.
I don't want to be touched.

344
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,480
You know, just have a history
with don't don't touch me.

345
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,680
And Craig is just hogging.
You know, he's like a gorilla

346
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,960
just all around me and he's not
his eyes.

347
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:11,720
You're just dude, so glad and
I'm just like, whoa.

348
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:16,320
And and I knew he knew, man,
it's crazy yummy hugged me and I

349
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,520
was like, he knows he's got to
know him, you know, right.

350
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:26,040
You know, those are I was used
to that kind of paranoia around

351
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,360
ever being high or drunk.
You know, I I was always like,

352
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,440
do they know?
Do people, you know, that's how

353
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,200
functional I was.
You know, I was always I was

354
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,400
always still aware and but he
didn't care, man.

355
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,640
This dude did not care.
He was, it's almost like he

356
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,480
thought no one would ever come
that they got invited, you know,

357
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,440
And so I remember sitting down
with Laney and I just thought,

358
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:57,160
wow, I mean, that's the best
greeter or worst greeter on the

359
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,280
planet of greeters up here to,
you know, and, and honestly,

360
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,560
that night we just started
hanging out.

361
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,280
We we went that night, we went
to a Mexican restaurant.

362
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,520
I think they bought us dinner
and nothing, you know, I thought

363
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,360
nothing of it.
You know, I was like, by the end

364
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,920
of the night, Craig knew what I
believed.

365
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,600
He he was not like, he didn't
like pull me aside and say, can

366
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,480
I pray for you?
You know, I said as a matter of

367
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,160
fact, Craig knowingly knowing
what I believed.

368
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:39,240
He never privately like
investigated my faith or I'm

369
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,240
telling you this.
This dude was just over the next

370
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,920
few years didn't know it now
when out in the part of the

371
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,120
story I'm telling with you you
but he was the hands and feet of

372
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:57,600
Christ near a man who physically
I mean, I didn't even I I didn't

373
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,520
even like to hear the name
Jesus.

374
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,400
You know, after all the Jesus
I'd heard my life, I was I was I

375
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,240
was kind of in the mindset of if
one more person says Jesus, you

376
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,160
know, I just I had just
detested.

377
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,360
I mean, the word church, the
feel of a Pew, the sound of a

378
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,120
guitar worship song, the sound
of a hymn, it just all.

379
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,800
But I didn't mind, Craig.
You know, I just didn't.

380
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,040
I didn't run away from this guy.
You know, they fed us.

381
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,640
They joined our mess.
You know, they came to our

382
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,480
house.
They came to my shows.

383
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,400
He gave me his time and
attention, regardless of any

384
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,720
performance, if that makes any
sense.

385
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:53,360
You know, most of my life I had,
I had manipulated relationships

386
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,760
and lived in relationships that
required me to be useful.

387
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,200
And if I wasn't, that
relationship was nothing, you

388
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:08,280
know, And so I wasn't used to
doing the mundane with someone.

389
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,040
I'd never, you know, I never had
a guy friend who just would show

390
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,240
up at the ball field and after
their son's game, he would stay

391
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,360
and watch my son and we'd sit
and keep the clock and he would

392
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:26,200
ask me about music, you know,
and not in a you know, normally

393
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,360
it was what have you written?
You know, what have you done?

394
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:32,840
But he just took an interest in
our lives and Laura did the same

395
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,000
thing, man.
I mean, they, you know, a lot of

396
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,760
people in my neighborhood were
like, hide your kids, hide your

397
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,240
wife from the Walker Hayes, you
know, and and and Craig brought

398
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,960
his kids to my shows.
You know, he was like he would,

399
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,200
he would, I don't know.
He just, it was a different

400
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:56,120
relationship with Craig.
And I remember leaving his house

401
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:58,760
one night.
I've been drinking all day, but

402
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,920
I was obvious I'd, I'd met the
family at, at their house And I

403
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,640
ended up, I probably left my car
at Craig's house 'cause I

404
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,480
couldn't drive him home.
And I remember riding with my

405
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,120
wife and saying, and this is
such a vulnerable question,

406
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:16,120
Mick.
I, I look back on this and I'm

407
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,800
like, dude, I, I feel like this
is a book in itself.

408
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:22,600
I just looked at Laney and I
simply, in no poetic way

409
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,000
whatsoever, just said why they
love us so much.

410
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:34,120
And and that makes me sad for
that version of me asking that

411
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:39,760
question, you know, because now
I know I know God loves me that

412
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,400
much times 50 Kabbalillion.
I don't always remember it, but

413
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,920
you know, that's, that was a guy
who asked that question thinking

414
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,840
I don't know if I liked it, but
he does.

415
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,800
And is that weird?
Is it you know why?

416
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,000
You know, that's just and and
that's, that's, that's A to me

417
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,640
again, you know, my, my story
has all these levels and and

418
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,520
areas where where my knee was
like this and then and then it

419
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:15,360
just slowly and I think that
night of softness just a little,

420
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,600
just a little layer, like, I
don't know, none.

421
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,720
We're not coming to Christ that
night, right?

422
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,600
We're looking at a human who
Christ is in and we're going.

423
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,800
I mean, that dude is not
perfect.

424
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,640
I mean, I know him well and I
know he's got some stuff and I

425
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,560
got some stuff, but I think that
dude loves like, I think I'm, I

426
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,920
think I'm safe with Craig.
And I think even if Craig

427
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,080
injured me, I think Craig would
go, I injured you.

428
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,440
Did I hurt, did I hurt you?
I did not want to hurt you.

429
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,800
I'm sorry, you know, And so that
was an interesting night.

430
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,840
But man, Craig, you know that
there's a song called Craig and

431
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,120
it's about a van.
And you know, this was a pivotal

432
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,600
moment.
Craig knew that my wife and I,

433
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,360
we had one car and we played
this game called the, it was a

434
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,200
cop game.
And every time I yelled cop, my

435
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,520
kids would dive down on the
floorboard.

436
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,640
And it was just 'cause we didn't
have enough seatbelts.

437
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,400
And Craig showed up at one of my
son's games.

438
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,680
He gets out of his car, it's his
minivan.

439
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,360
And he said, man, you know, me
and Laura, we've prayed about

440
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,360
it.
We've thought about it.

441
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:33,680
We I'm going to go and get a
basically a used car CarMax for

442
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,760
a couple grand, but we want you
to have this minivan.

443
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,160
We, we just feel like we need to
give you this.

444
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,360
And you know, dude, I never, I
mean never in my life.

445
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:50,480
I've never had a human one sit
in their home and think of me

446
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,480
with their wife and their fan.
I've never, I've never had a man

447
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,280
go, Hey, man, me and my family.
You just been on our, our brain.

448
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,360
And that's not 'cause I, I was
like, I would never do that.

449
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,920
Like, you know, that's, that's
not something I spent my time

450
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,080
doing.
And you know, so anyway, I was

451
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,240
embarrassed.
I was a little bit angry.

452
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,640
There were people around and you
know, I was a little bit

453
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,480
frustrated.
You know, I think my ego was

454
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,000
massively checked that night.
It it and and I honestly refused

455
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,640
the van, which is so dumb, but I
also look at that version of me

456
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,240
and I go, I didn't know how to
be loved.

457
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,920
I didn't know how to I never
asked for help.

458
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,320
I didn't know how to accept
help.

459
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,560
I would never help someone, you
know, And so it was a foreign

460
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,840
concept to me.
And that's so scary.

461
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,600
You know, even good, great
things are scary.

462
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,880
It's like angels with shepherds.
It probably, you know, they're

463
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,040
the best angels ever, but
they're like.

464
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,560
Right.
And so that's kind of how I felt

465
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,280
finally just accept.
I was like, I think I accepted

466
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,200
it with the dude, we'll get it
back.

467
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,040
What?
Thank you for letting us borrow

468
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,840
it.
And then when I, and then when

469
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:15,160
I, when I accepted the gift, as
I drove, from the moment of

470
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:20,160
getting the gift, I began to
realize how many burdens it

471
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,240
lifted and, and, and I looked in
the rear view and I saw all my

472
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,680
kids had a set, you know, had a
seat belt and even the, the, the

473
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,440
baby carrier was like locked in.
And I don't know if I wept, but

474
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,000
I bet you there was like a
little puddle at the bottom of

475
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,760
my eyes, you know, that I was
restraining.

476
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,520
Just go in.
I think I was just having some

477
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,840
gratitude for the first time in
my life.

478
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,440
I was probably just going well,
man, I had nothing to do with

479
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,040
this.
But I think I'm going to sleep a

480
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,840
little better tonight for cause
'cause we have this van, you

481
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,840
know, and there there's no
urgency to give it back in it.

482
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,400
And, but man, that was a pivotal
moment and, and I always wanted

483
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,800
to thank again.
Hey, back to the like you

484
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,560
pointed out, not a believer now,
but I am looking at a believer

485
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,320
going.
I don't know, dude.

486
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,520
This guy again, he's not
perfect.

487
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:25,720
He's not pristine.
Craig is not Jesus Christ, but

488
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,720
I'm in this in this song I began
to write for him.

489
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,880
The only hook I could think of
was this guy's not Jesus, but I

490
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,720
think he might actually know the
the the guy.

491
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:42,880
I think he might know a Jesus
'cause it was so alarmingly

492
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,960
counter cultural.
How unselfish some of this, this

493
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,600
guy's actions, thoughts,
prayers, desires were.

494
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:59,800
And and it gave me life.
Whatever was coming through him

495
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,360
was giving me life, you know,
and in things that I don't

496
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,440
naturally desire, I did at that
point in my life, I didn't

497
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,400
naturally wake up and desire
relationships all walls down

498
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,760
honesty, you know, a church that
feels like a hospital, you know,

499
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,680
a relationship that feels like I
I didn't, I didn't, I still

500
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,680
don't, you know, I still, I
still feel like when I do want

501
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,440
those things, it's supernatural.
That's not Walker.

502
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,560
That's not the core of my
earthly thing here.

503
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:38,760
My, my, my, my thing here wants
isolation and darkness and stuff

504
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:44,600
and, and wanting and power and,
you know, all these bad, these

505
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,520
things that are bad, you know,
they, they just ruin me.

506
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,480
And but yeah, Craig's the, the
light through Craig.

507
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,520
Just, I began to let it feel
warm, you know, and the more I

508
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,440
let it, I I've again, this, the,
the song is crazy.

509
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,000
The song's a miracle.
There's another miracle, Nick.

510
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,960
It's 3 minutes.
The the original version, 3

511
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,440
minutes and 16 seconds long.
I couldn't even have told you

512
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,239
John 316.
I I knew it was like forgotten

513
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,239
world.
Wow.

514
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,400
I didn't, I didn't even know
what forgotten meant.

515
00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:21,320
I didn't know the rest of it.
I didn't know what was before

516
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,800
and after.
You know, I just had heard it my

517
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,239
whole life.
But that song, you know, that's

518
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,600
a true that is an atheist.
If you listen to that song, it's

519
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:37,239
an atheist looking at a believer
just being confused by Jesus.

520
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,440
Not obviously not, you know,
again, I can't say it enough.

521
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,480
It, it's this isn't about me.
This isn't about Craig.

522
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:49,920
It's about Jesus with two broken
dudes bumping us into each other

523
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:57,680
in life and just flooding love,
just dumping a bucket of of love

524
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,240
on both of us, our families, our
situations, you know, a little

525
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,120
bit of relief.
But again, just looking at the

526
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,360
eternal perspective going,
there's something going, this is

527
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,040
great.
You know, this is this is not

528
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,960
sidewalk Rd. tree.
You know, this is another

529
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,720
reality.
These are things I wasn't

530
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:22,320
looking for inside.
So I had to write this that

531
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,720
weird song called Craig.
But dude, Craig is my he's my

532
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,720
brother.
I mean, if if if he's the

533
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:32,920
definition and I would imagine
of a brother beyond blood, you

534
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,360
know, I mean, he's he's my best
friend.

535
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,240
I mean, we we will.
It went if if Craig leaves this

536
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,960
earth before me.
Honestly, that might hurt worse

537
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,640
than losing Oakley in a weird
way.

538
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,680
I don't know how to, you know,
Yeah, I I can't.

539
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:54,880
I am just so thankful I I don't.
I wish everyone could see Christ

540
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,920
and a friend and and do lot walk
through life with them.

541
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,960
And again, it got everybody
listening.

542
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,840
It's not perfect.
Me and Craig aren't always oh,

543
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,800
hey, happy.
You know, sometimes we're mad at

544
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,880
each other, you know, sometimes
we're broken by each other, but

545
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,920
we're never going away.
And that's a supernatural

546
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,360
characteristic that our
relationship possesses.

547
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,640
I think all relationships,
sadly, they can crumble, you

548
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,800
know, marriages can crumble.
Best friendships can crumble for

549
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:33,360
for silly reasons, but they do,
you know, and and we all wear

550
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,120
those that brokenness somehow
together.

551
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:42,360
But man, Craig, yeah, Craig is a
that Craig is a gift from God.

552
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,240
Again, miraculous.
Not a guy who woke up every day

553
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,760
going, man, I'd really love a
friend, you know, I've been with

554
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,640
a friend in this life.
You know, I'd really love to get

555
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,440
on podcasts one day and talk
about my friendship with a guy

556
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,120
named Craig of all people.
A church guy, right?

557
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,800
One of those church greeter guys
you know.

558
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,720
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.

559
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:15,160
Well over what period of time
were you guys friends before the

560
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:21,160
car gift occurs?
We were friends probably three

561
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,880
years.
So yeah, you know, Craig saw me.

562
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,120
I think Craig saw me on the tail
end of kind of getting dropped

563
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,000
from a label.
So the, the demise was, it was

564
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:40,760
gradual, but for a moment there,
Nashville was, was very

565
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,160
promising.
You know, for me, it, despite my

566
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,960
habits, despite our growing
family, that didn't make any

567
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,960
sense in the business I was in.
You know, we, I had landed some

568
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,640
record deals and I got dropped
by 1 and picked up by another

569
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,040
and, and things look promising.
And then I was dropped.

570
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:06,200
And after I was dropped from
Capitol Records, I'd say that

571
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,160
was probably 2012.
And then I met Craig around

572
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:16,080
2015.
So we were two years dry spell,

573
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,000
not a lot of looks from any more
labels.

574
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,400
A lot of Nashville knew who I
was.

575
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,760
Didn't necessarily know what to
do with me.

576
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:28,160
Just kind of was used done.
And you know, that's when I got

577
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,920
the job at Costco, which was a,
a crazy story in itself.

578
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,880
I mean, there was a there was a
kid watching me at a show and he

579
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,400
wanted my autograph and I felt
sorry for the kid.

580
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,480
I was like, bro, you don't want
my autograph.

581
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,840
I was like.
I was like, we're not doing that

582
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,840
great, you know, But I said, I
said, what do you do?

583
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,440
And he said, I work at Costco in
the tire center.

584
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,440
And I said, man, I'll give you
my autograph if you'll put in a

585
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,480
good word for me, 'cause I need,
I need benefits, man.

586
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,200
I need a job with, with some
security, you know, for my

587
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,240
family.
So that was a crazy, crazy

588
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,480
story.
Still friends with that young

589
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,520
man, just incredible guy.
And he's see, I mean, you talk

590
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,320
if you if you pie, if you asked
him what he is seeing.

591
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,600
Oh my God, you know his every
time we see each other, we just

592
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,560
kind of look at each other like
I know, I know it's great, you

593
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,840
know, and and it's just it's
just crazy.

594
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,000
But yeah, man.
So we Craig three-year about

595
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,560
three years to the car not, you
know, again not becoming a

596
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,680
believer at that moment.
The knee slowly it's like I'm

597
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,120
doing the slowest squat ever.
You know, I'm doing what eats on

598
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,800
my back like I got it.
I'm not going down refuse.

599
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,760
They're still, you know, and I
will say guy, everybody

600
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,240
listening to, to all those, you
know, ministering and loving on

601
00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,320
people like Craig, just to
encourage you.

602
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,720
There was 0 signs that I would
allow.

603
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,680
Again that question.
Why does he love me?

604
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,240
Never would have said that out
loud around Craig.

605
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,920
Kept it, kept all this to
myself.

606
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:22,560
No one knew the knee was bowing.
Obviously when I wrote this

607
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,840
song, it encouraged Craig.
Absolutely just blasted him with

608
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,400
encouragement.
He has an amazing story around

609
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,360
receiving that song.
I didn't know, but he was

610
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,040
experiencing some burned out.
He was literally this is crazy

611
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000
Mick.
The day I sent Craig the Craig

612
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:48,840
song that day he had walked by
himself begging God to answer

613
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:54,360
the question.
Please show me that that that

614
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,920
that what I'm doing is is
meaningful, is Matt is

615
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,960
impacting, is mattering, is
encouraging.

616
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,160
So please encourage me.
He literally prayed that that

617
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,440
day.
And he has a funny story about

618
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,640
receiving the song.
He was with his wife and he was

619
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,160
dumping all that discouragement
on her and she got a ping on her

620
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,440
phone with the song from Laney.
And he actually, this is so

621
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,440
funny.
This is such a dude thing to do.

622
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:30,120
But he said, he said, Laura,
will you pay attention to me?

623
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,120
I'm kind of pouring my heart out
and you're checking your e-mail

624
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,400
from Laney.
And Laura said, Craig walk like

625
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,720
I've got an MP3 that's called
Craig.

626
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,920
And, you know, they were used to
getting songs from me.

627
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,120
And she said, I think we need to
listen to it.

628
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,640
And he said, can we just listen
later?

629
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,400
And she pressed play.
And to hear him describe, he, he

630
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,080
talks about this verse, you
know, I will shower you with

631
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,920
singing.
It's like it's from the Old

632
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,280
Testament.
He he's literally like, I felt

633
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:11,200
that verse, you know, and and
it's crazy.

634
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,080
He just bawled and bawled.
You know, when we lost Oakley,

635
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,680
Craig was the first guy to show
up.

636
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,240
Him and Laura were the only
human hand, you know, to hold.

637
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:27,200
I mean, we passed, we passed her
around and it was weird, you

638
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:32,240
know, one would hold her and
look at her hands and her feet

639
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:36,840
and smell her and just and the
other all other others of us

640
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,560
would watch and just hurt with
the person holding.

641
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,160
You know, it's I, I remember
looking at Laura and thinking in

642
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:52,400
the moment, I was just like,
Laura is from is breaking inside

643
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,560
right now.
This, this, this woman is

644
00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:00,480
meeting my my, my daughter and
loving her and missing her.

645
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,000
And even though they never met,
you know, and then she would

646
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,240
pass, right?
She would pass her, her to Craig

647
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:12,240
and it would and we would just,
we would just feel that pain for

648
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:13,880
each other.
And then when I had, you know,

649
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:19,720
when I held her and they were in
the room, it was like hands of

650
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:24,120
just just holding me up.
Just just, you know, told your

651
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,160
dog like, you know, and and and
so man, to have them.

652
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,480
I mean, that was probably the
single most, you know, I don't

653
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,360
know.
I don't know the science of like

654
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,800
what happens to your body in
those moments.

655
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,040
It was a process of losing
Oakley.

656
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:46,280
It was the shock of the doctor
saying it was a girl we tried to

657
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,320
resuscitate.
We can't, you know, that was

658
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,080
just like a bullet.
Then Hey, you know, your your

659
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,680
wife's not doing so good.
I get it.

660
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,480
That's another bullet.
Then you're in alone.

661
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,800
You're alone in a room.
You're going.

662
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,760
Well, I want to hold.
Do you hold a dead kid?

663
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,560
Should I meet her now or should
I wait?

664
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,800
I don't want to.
I don't want Laney to wake up.

665
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,000
And then Laney didn't even
really just wake up.

666
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,920
You know, she she would wake up,
point to her stomach.

667
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,680
Want an explanation?
I would draw it on a whiteboard.

668
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,120
She would just convulse back to
sleep and then do it again.

669
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:28,480
You know, it was a confusing day
and just the layers of of pain,

670
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,720
they kind of broke on me like
waves, you know, But that moment

671
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:37,120
with cragging them around that
was intense.

672
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,560
That pain that that that that
pain.

673
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,720
I remember that pain was bad.
And then I remember I ran you.

674
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:49,080
Maybe you felt like this, Mick,
but I remember sitting at a red

675
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:55,720
light on the way home to tell
our kids that night and I just

676
00:44:55,720 --> 00:45:02,120
felt, I mean, hope, you know, I
honestly was like, what do you

677
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,800
do with life after that?
You know, like how do I ever eat

678
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,920
an apple and go, well, that was
a good apple, you know what I

679
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:10,680
mean?
Do you just?

680
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,800
Yeah.
You're joyless and you're

681
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,080
sitting at this red light and
over here, here's a, here's an

682
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,120
old lady with a blank stare and
here's a couple kissing.

683
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,080
And over there there's a dude
flipping me off 'cause I'm not.

684
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,000
And I just wanted to stop in the
middle of the intersection and

685
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:35,680
just go like just I, you know,
And it, it was like, it was like

686
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:38,360
all of you think whatever's
going on.

687
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,280
And it is, that's what's crazy
is that everybody in their car

688
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:50,000
is going through their own.
But man, grief made me so

689
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,680
pissed.
And then I went home and, you

690
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:58,120
know, I had to ask lady's
parents to leave the house, you

691
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,640
know, while I sat down and, you
know, tried to explain to the

692
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,440
kids.
But yeah, that was 8-8 years

693
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:09,400
ago.
Still not a believer, which if

694
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,600
there was ever a moment where I
was like, God, I wish I'd known

695
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,600
you sooner.
It was then, you know, I, I look

696
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,080
back and I'm like, I mean, this
sounds dramatic, but I'm like, I

697
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:22,560
don't know how I didn't kill
myself.

698
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,400
I don't know how.
I don't know how I just didn't

699
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,920
find something really tall and
jump off of it.

700
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,040
Because I mean, in my white, you
know, there's the, there's the

701
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,960
woman I love, man.
And I And then she adds, that's

702
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,640
as much as I can love right now.
I mean, I love Laney can't make

703
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,080
her smile barely could make her
come back to life.

704
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,000
I didn't do that that that
wasn't that was miraculous that

705
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,800
you know that the bleeding
stopped.

706
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,800
The one thing she loves more
that I know she loves it that

707
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,840
her her love for her kids is
different than me and I love it.

708
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,240
I'm fine with it.
Go go go for it.

709
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:02,360
I'm, I'm jealous of my kids
sometimes that they, that they

710
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:08,160
have her for a mom and, and I,
and I love it, but I can't make

711
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,960
her smile, you know, and even
our kids, you know, there's,

712
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:17,400
there's this lingering like
tastelessness that follows that,

713
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,280
that type of loss.
And I, I could tell it was

714
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:26,160
frustrating her, you know, she's
a very joyful, attentive, happy

715
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,560
person.
But you know, I just noticed a

716
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,040
lot of stairs, you know, just a
lot of stairs.

717
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,840
But there was a night, man, the
night we buried Oakley, crazy

718
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,680
night.
Craig and Laura were the only

719
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,160
people, you know, we I just
wasn't, I was anti humanity.

720
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,440
I mean, I didn't want anybody.
I didn't want my parents.

721
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,080
I didn't want Laney's parents.
I don't want anybody.

722
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,200
I and I and the dude, even the
dude that like officiated, not

723
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,960
officiated, but like helped us
at the funeral place.

724
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:02,880
I mean, dude, I, I was so close
to just punching that guy in the

725
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,760
mouth for no reason.
I mean, he just, there was

726
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,720
nothing he could say that was
right.

727
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,600
And he was also communicating
with Laney.

728
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,000
And I couldn't, I noticed her
grimaces about things.

729
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,600
But he's just doing his job, you
know, and.

730
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,640
Your pain is just so.
Raw, yeah, yeah, it's.

731
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,080
Everything's everything's wrong.
It is it's just reckless and it

732
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:30,240
and a man that night when we
left, you know, we're hugging

733
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:33,960
the box.
Me and my sons put dirt on the I

734
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,960
just wanted to do and you know,
we filled up the hole.

735
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:43,040
I grabbed a shovel from the dude
and was like, I don't want you

736
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,760
filling out my daughter's.
You know, it's, it's, it's so

737
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:52,200
irrational now when I say it,
but in that moment I was like, I

738
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,640
almost just was like, I want to
hurt more.

739
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,600
You know, this, this, this
cannot hurt enough for how

740
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:04,400
beautiful, how much beauty was
just ripped from from my life

741
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,840
and it's pretty.
And I was probably, it was my

742
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,520
fault, you know, in, you know,
in the weirdest way.

743
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,120
I look back and I'm like, why
didn't I just get a knife and

744
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,960
cut Laney's stomach open and
reach in and grab it and save

745
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,320
the day or, you know, stupid
stuff, just not thinking right.

746
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,040
But that night, man, I got in
that Honda.

747
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:28,640
I got in our car and I drove to
this bar called 55 S.

748
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:36,200
It was a Friday and I, man, I
just wanted to blow it up, dude.

749
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:40,440
I mean, I had, I, I probably
speed to this bar.

750
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,520
Looked inside.
There were 33 guys.

751
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,400
I guess they were tourists or
whatever.

752
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,680
And I was, I, I had already
known what I was going to order.

753
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:54,560
I was going to sit down and get,
I wanted to just get in a fight.

754
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,360
I wanted to break every window
in that bar.

755
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,080
I wanted to, I didn't care.
I was like ready to get tased.

756
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:07,040
I did not care man, just wanted,
I wanted blood on my arms.

757
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,880
I want it.
I mean, I just, I just wanted to

758
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:15,080
go to battle And, and I think I
wanted to go to battle with God

759
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,800
in retros, I don't know.
I just wanted to go to battle

760
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:23,240
with something and and again, I
think if I had of been going to

761
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:28,120
battle with God, he would have
like grabbed me his Amen.

762
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,640
That's not me, that God, your
picture, that's not I'm the

763
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,680
wrong you.
I know I get it, but it's not

764
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,600
me, you know.
Anyway, I opened my door and my

765
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,560
wallet wasn't there and I drove
home.

766
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,280
I was so pissed.
I was like son of A so I drove

767
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,840
home and man, when I walked up
the stairs I'll never forget it.

768
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,040
I mean I can see you right now.
Walked up the stairs and looked

769
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:02,640
through our doorway and there
was my wife, Laney, all alone on

770
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:08,600
the day she had buried our
child, our daughter and I had

771
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,400
left her there.
And not only had I left her

772
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:18,440
there alone, I've been so
selfish to think that for me,

773
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:27,000
for myself, to help me, I was
going to go heat problems on top

774
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,960
of the mess of life already, you
know, and this is life.

775
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,680
You know, that we're not the
only people who have lost a kid.

776
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,480
You know, I'm I'll play golf
with a young lady yesterday who,

777
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:42,800
who lost the son a year ago in a
biking accident and he's 21,

778
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,320
man.
Just, and just, you could look

779
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,560
at this lady and go, something
happened, you know, you just see

780
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,800
it on her face.
But man.

781
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:59,280
But I but a dude, I just, I was
so frustrated and sad and

782
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,640
ashamed when I looked through
that door that I walked in and

783
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,520
in the hallway, I just fell on
my knees and I just, I said, I'm

784
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:16,000
sorry and just, just, I told
Laney I was like, I'm so sorry.

785
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,640
I, I just, I was going to do
this.

786
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:27,000
And I came back to get my wallet
and Laney was so incredibly kind

787
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,120
and she cried.
Wouldn't, I mean, we just held

788
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,120
each other and shook, you know,
our bodies were shaking with

789
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:38,400
pain and anger and sadness.
And she found me in a a meeting

790
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:44,120
and I just got my car by myself
and I was so sweet.

791
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,200
That was so I'm sure she was
like, God let him.

792
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,720
But she did, you know, she
trusted me.

793
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:55,640
And I drove to this a a meeting.
I didn't say a word to anyone.

794
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:00,880
And the first guy that got a,
you know, he got up to share and

795
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,000
I don't remember anything.
I don't remember this guy's

796
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,560
name.
I just remember looking at my

797
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,840
shoes and there was dirt from
the grave still on it.

798
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:16,480
And he said his first sentence.
He said, man, I was so angry.

799
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:23,080
That was the first words from
his mouth of his like, you know,

800
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:29,120
testimony and erect me.
It just absolutely wrecked me.

801
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,800
Hey, it's Mick real quick before
we keep going, if this

802
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,120
conversation is meaningful for
you, do me a favor.

803
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,960
Tap subscribe so you don't miss
the awesome stuff coming next.

804
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,160
And if you've gotten even one
insight from this episode,

805
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,640
please hit the like button.
It's a small thing, but it helps

806
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,680
this reach more people who might
need it.

807
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:52,640
Last thing, think of one person
in your life who would benefit

808
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:53,760
from this.
Just one.

809
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,240
Share it with them right now.
That's how this grows, person to

810
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:00,480
person.
All right, back to it.

811
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:06,040
Again, just on a metal chair,
strangers, all walks of life,

812
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:12,520
knees bouncing and knee probably
stopped bouncing, you know, at

813
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,720
those words.
I just needed, I think I needed

814
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:19,960
to hear somebody else go.
I wish I knew that dude.

815
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,000
I mean, I wish I could find that
guy and go, man, you don't even

816
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,240
know you probably, you probably
even know you were probably on

817
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:30,880
your way to saying what you
thought was the amazing

818
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:38,080
punchline of your testimony.
But God made you say I was angry

819
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,800
and that's all I needed to hear
tonight, bro.

820
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,080
That is it.
Because that's what I've, that's

821
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:50,800
what I was and it was so simple
and I didn't talk to anyone.

822
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,920
I'm sure they were like, what a
Dick, Excuse me, Nick, but I'm

823
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,720
sure that I'm sure they were
like, they were like, what a

824
00:54:57,720 --> 00:55:00,240
that guy.
And they probably like, they

825
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:02,400
were like, man, wish we could
have helped that guy.

826
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,560
But I drove home and you know
what, man?

827
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,280
I got on the phone with Craig
and we just cried.

828
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,760
We we didn't even really talk.
We just listened to each other

829
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,480
cry.
I remember sitting on the porch

830
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,080
and it was a hot night.
We I was kind of sweating, you

831
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:25,720
know, just sitting in the chair
and and, and well, I just cried,

832
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:28,760
you know, we just cried and he
was hurting too.

833
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,480
You know, I could tell Craig
just I know he could feel the

834
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:37,120
unsettlement of the day and just
how think he felt.

835
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,520
Like that's another thing, Mick,
I don't know, I don't know what

836
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,240
y'all, you know, I don't know
how y'all proceeded with like

837
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,440
burial or cremation, cremation,
but but it's, you know, burying

838
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,040
or that just if the whole
funeral process kind of

839
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,480
frustrating.
You know, if you want to you

840
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,720
want to talk about futility,
there's no place you can put

841
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:01,760
someone you love that's pretty
enough.

842
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:07,160
You're kind of like, do I visit
there forever?

843
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,840
And then you're like, no, it's
certain body, you know, and and

844
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,360
then they sell you a stone.
You're like, what are we going

845
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,000
to ride on it?
And there's nothing you can

846
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:20,880
write where you're like, that's
her in a sentence, you know, and

847
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:25,200
I don't even know her, you know.
And yeah, the, there's, there's

848
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,240
kind of a, there was a, there
was a frustration in that

849
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,760
process where it made me kind of
look at humans, me included, and

850
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:36,200
go, who cares, man?
Like I think burial is way more

851
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:41,320
for the living than it is.
It's, it's just this, there's

852
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:45,720
something wrong with it.
They'll never be right.

853
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:49,280
It like I think it's good to
honor and the, the, the life.

854
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,760
But it, it was an empty burial,
was a very empty thing, you

855
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,720
know, and, and confusing.
Maybe it wasn't for you.

856
00:56:57,720 --> 00:57:01,360
I don't, I don't know.
But yeah, man, Craig was with me

857
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:09,880
there and, and then Laney and I,
you know, life slowly came back.

858
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:15,000
You know, it's it's like it's
like winter, winter took its

859
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,960
time leaving and and spring, you
know, I found myself laughing

860
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:25,120
and me going oops, I don't think
I'm allowed to laugh when you,

861
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:26,880
you know, there was there was
that.

862
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,920
And then, you know, Laney didn't
hold a baby.

863
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,720
That was not a thing.
I mean, Laney did not want to be

864
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,800
around dude.
Anyway.

865
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,960
Also the our first, our first
the first time we got back to

866
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,640
church.
This is crazy.

867
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:50,880
Some Deacon guy walks us up sits
us in the 2nd row 2 minutes

868
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,160
later we're we're like a little
hesitant.

869
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:58,880
We're like, I don't know if I'm
ready to do this baby dedication

870
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,000
day.
Oh.

871
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:07,160
Man, like literally, I mean, I,
and honestly, I didn't even, I

872
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:13,480
was like completely just like,
oh God, what have I, what have I

873
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,320
done to my wife?
You know?

874
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,920
And I look at you know, and she
can't breathe.

875
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:23,760
And, and again, it was, it was
like, it was like burial day or

876
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,480
the red light.
I just wanted to start throwing

877
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,960
chairs.
I wanted to take the baptism and

878
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,400
dump the water everywhere.
I mean, I just, I was like

879
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:40,760
really, really angry.
And again, not a believer, you

880
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:45,320
know, I'm like, why are we even
here at this stupid place?

881
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:51,280
And thank goodness, you know,
Craig, just they got it.

882
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:55,160
They were, you know, they were,
I think, I think for them that

883
00:58:55,160 --> 00:59:01,080
they they were prayerfully
going, Lord, what purpose could

884
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:05,000
this possibly have for my
unbelieving friend?

885
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,040
You know that this doesn't make
sense, you know, and we've

886
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:13,120
talked about that, but yeah,
man, kind of got back to life

887
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:18,760
and as, you know, losing, you
know, maybe you can relate,

888
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:23,920
maybe you can't.
But I began to just say why, you

889
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:28,040
know, to to to a lot.
Just why do you work simple

890
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,080
things?
You what are we doing driving

891
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:35,160
back and forth to this job?
You know, as a musician, I'm I'm

892
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:40,120
on stage, I'm singing songs that
are they're happy, they're fun,

893
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,920
I'm supposed to entertain, but I
don't feels kind of silly.

894
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:48,720
You know, you're I'm I'm just
like what a what a meaningless.

895
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,120
This doesn't feel good.
I don't want to get up here and

896
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,840
dance around.
And then I tried, I tried this

897
00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:01,200
kind of self-righteous approach
on the road where this very

898
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,520
humanist thing I would be like.
Well, let's make it about the

899
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,720
fans.
You know, there's fans out there

900
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:13,000
who have sadness and this was
all self-made.

901
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:18,840
You know, this was mustered up.
Hey Walker motivational speech,

902
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:23,320
you know, big joy of like, get
out there and do good, you know,

903
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,360
make it about the fans.
It'll give you purpose, you

904
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,800
know, and man, I honestly, this
sounds funny, but I failed at

905
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,120
that.
You know, it would it would be

906
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,200
about the fans for maybe 37
seconds.

907
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,720
And then I was like, man, I'm
tired of talking to this lady.

908
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,960
I can someone make this lady
get, you know what I mean?

909
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:48,080
It's it was gross, but it also
like me looking through the

910
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,600
mirror and let you know the the
door looking at Laney, like me,

911
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,600
except in the van.
It made me go, well, that's

912
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:57,920
weird.
You're not even good at being

913
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,760
good.
Being good should be you should

914
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,120
be good at being good,
especially when you know being

915
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,400
good is good.
We should all wake up and go,

916
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,880
hey, what do I do today?
Well, I do the good thing.

917
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:14,040
OK, Well, I dare anyone who's in
who's not a believer, just for a

918
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,360
fun experiment, try that for a
day and then be honest right

919
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,520
down on a legal pad.
How good were you?

920
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,560
And then do your do your
thoughts and everything.

921
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,400
And I, and that's kind of what I
was doing to myself and, and I

922
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,960
began to feel gross.
Now, I don't think that

923
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:35,400
grossness was from God, but I
think it's real.

924
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,720
I mean, I think when you, when
you look in the mirror and you

925
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:42,480
don't dwell on the redeeming
love and blood of Christ and you

926
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:47,840
see your own sin, there's a
nasty thing there.

927
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,560
You know what I mean?
It's kind of like the woman at

928
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:54,160
the well when she's like, wait a
SEC, You know those, you know,

929
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,120
you know the things.
And you're still offering me

930
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,200
water that I'll never go
thirsty, you know, living water.

931
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:05,680
And that's kind of gross.
And so one night on the phone, I

932
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,600
was talking to Lanie.
I was on the bus and I said,

933
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:15,920
Lanie, please tell me someone as
gross as me who has ever

934
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:20,600
experienced, like, probably
didn't even know what the word

935
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,760
meant, but I'd be like, who's
been sanctified?

936
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,960
Who's different?
Who's been transformed now?

937
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,640
You could have said Craig at
that moment, but all I knew was

938
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,080
redeemed Craig.
And I was like, he's just nice.

939
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,160
Yeah.
He's literally the nicest human.

940
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,120
That doesn't count.
Yeah.

941
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,120
And Laney said.
Laney said what about Paul?

942
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:45,160
Paul was the Pharisee holding
the jacket while dude got

943
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,240
stoned.
He's killing Christians and then

944
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,760
he and then he, Damascus.
Total shift.

945
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,400
Different guy forever.
And I was like, Paul doesn't

946
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,200
count, you know, I'm like, he's
in the manual.

947
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,200
He's like the hero of Acts on.
He writes it all.

948
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:11,040
And she recommended a book for
me called Secrets of an Unlikely

949
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:18,560
Convert by Rosario Butterfield.
And man, I mean, I must have

950
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:23,200
been desperate because I
downloaded it on Kindle or

951
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,960
whatever, which I never, I never
had a Kindle book before.

952
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:32,280
And I read the entire book on
the ride home.

953
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:40,320
Our testimonies, our pride, our,
our, our, you know, the things

954
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,000
we felt about believers were
similar.

955
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:46,520
The word hypocrisy was used so
much.

956
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:52,280
You know, just a lot of our same
ideals, our testimony was the

957
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,520
same.
And she even had a guy named Ken

958
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:59,080
who was basically her Craig.
Whoa.

959
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,960
I was like, this is interesting,
like she's having all these

960
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,280
dinners with this guy and this
family.

961
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:11,040
And anyway, the only difference
in our testimonies was that her

962
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:17,000
knee hit the ground and she just
is surrender is the is the

963
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:22,120
simplest way I know how to put
it is that she just stopped and

964
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:28,240
said, OK, enough of me.
This really ain't working out.

965
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,880
Not that she even knew what the
end goal workout meant.

966
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:34,920
She just knew, right?
I can't solve it.

967
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:36,840
Like whatever it is, I can't.
I can't.

968
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,640
I've tried it all.
She was she was a lesbian.

969
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:44,240
She was like the head of the
LGB, whatever the, the words,

970
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,640
you know, at her at this crazy
universe like Ivy League

971
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,560
university.
And the only thing that was

972
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,600
different about us is that she
surrendered.

973
01:04:55,320 --> 01:05:01,280
And the next day I drove home
from the bus where they dropped

974
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:09,440
me in the band off and I bought
a Bible and I googled, you know,

975
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,040
what's the bet, you know, like
the I guess I got ANASB or

976
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,200
whatever.
And I put my hoodie over my

977
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:17,800
head.
I was like, I don't want anybody

978
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,640
to see me.
And I bought the the word of God

979
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:26,200
and I just went home and I just
ate it up.

980
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,120
And I ate it up in secrecy.
I hid it in the Barnes and Noble

981
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:34,160
bag.
I was so embarrassed that it had

982
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:38,760
come to me being crazy, like
those crazy people that I always

983
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,960
talked about.
I wasn't about to let my wife

984
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:49,200
know that, you know, maybe she
had been on the right track, you

985
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,520
know, and.
I.

986
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:52,440
Understand that.
Yeah.

987
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,320
You know, I just was
embarrassed.

988
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:58,160
I was like, man, I have.
It was kind of like Paul, bro.

989
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,400
I was like, I've kind of
ridiculed these people.

990
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,160
My whole, you know, it's just
like my whole life I made fun of

991
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:09,120
people with glasses and now I
can't see and I need glasses and

992
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:13,480
that is what it felt like and
not really.

993
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:15,680
I don't make fun of people about
it, but you know what I mean?

994
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,720
It's.
Just follow your analogy.

995
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:24,600
And so I, I, I eventually just
expressed to Laney, I was like,

996
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:25,800
Hey, I got to tell you
something.

997
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:31,480
I'm tearing through this book
and and you know what, Mick, I

998
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:34,480
know that, you know, I think I I
don't ever want to be irreverent

999
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,800
when I you know, that's that's
one thing I'm really trying to

1000
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,560
do is like you said, I loved
your prayer.

1001
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:45,720
Just I only want to honor
everything that has to do with

1002
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:49,960
God, and I'm pretty sure that's
everything and I read.

1003
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:54,000
But I'm telling you, man, I read
the Bible and for the first time

1004
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:59,560
in my life, I heard the complete
got like from in the beginning

1005
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,760
to the end.
And I and I also, I realized

1006
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:11,080
what really helped me was that
the Bible was full of idiots

1007
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,760
just like me that the Lord
redeemed.

1008
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,680
They didn't redeem themselves.
Now he says, you know your faith

1009
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:23,520
makes you well, but even our
even the faith is from him.

1010
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:28,520
And so it was just such a relief
to go, you know, all my life I'd

1011
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,960
heard Davidson's man after God,
and I was like, well, I'm not

1012
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,920
No, I mean, that was a statement
made about him and that's

1013
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,920
awesome.
And I love, I hope God, I hope

1014
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,760
somebody man hope when I die.
Like he was a man.

1015
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,480
I forgot, you know, that's yay,
whatever.

1016
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,920
But aside from that statement
made about him, he was an idiot.

1017
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,240
You know who just continually
the Lord just working on him

1018
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:58,800
time after time and mistake
after mistake and God went out

1019
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:03,600
there with some stopwatch going
ah, you didn't make it good fast

1020
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,160
enough.
He was just saying Dave, I want

1021
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:08,120
your heart, bro.
I want your heart.

1022
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:11,240
Ah, you want the girl dude, I
just want your heart.

1023
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,320
It's OK.
Oh, you want to kill that guy?

1024
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:18,359
Oh, you want kingdoms blah blah
blah, man, hey David, heart the

1025
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:21,040
thing and you just give me the
heart.

1026
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:26,560
And that's to me.
That's a common thread of any

1027
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,319
interaction God has with
humanity.

1028
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,720
It just redemption has to occur
eventually.

1029
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:39,120
So in order for redemption to
occur there, there has to be a

1030
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:45,319
wreck, a, a, a collision, a, a,
a sufferer, A sadness and it,

1031
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:48,160
it's, it's us.
We fell, we ate the apple.

1032
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:54,439
We did the thing we wanted to be
God, you know, and, and so that

1033
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,760
was a relief.
You know, that to, to me, the

1034
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,720
qualification, Hey, what do you
got to do to go to Jesus, be a

1035
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,680
Sinner.
That's a, that's a crazy thing

1036
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,200
to be.
You know, you're like, you don't

1037
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,359
got to, you don't got to put on
a coat.

1038
01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:10,399
You don't got to have some crazy
dream.

1039
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,760
You just gotta wake up and go.
I can't not be a Sinner.

1040
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:21,960
Well, there is a way, There is
the way and the only way is

1041
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,000
Christ.
That's it.

1042
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:32,359
And and I heard it and I
believed it and I I on again, no

1043
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:34,680
wisdom at this point, no
knowledge.

1044
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:43,600
Just need N EE D for Christ and
nothing else.

1045
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:47,760
And and being OK with that just
for the first time in my life

1046
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:49,760
going.
I don't need a car.

1047
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,000
I don't need a hit song.
I don't need my marriage to

1048
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,280
improve.
I don't need my kid to swing

1049
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,880
better at baseball.
I don't need my mom and my

1050
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,080
relationship to heal.
I don't need $1,000,000.

1051
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,600
I don't need a roof.
I don't need food.

1052
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:10,560
I need Jesus.
Just just all caps Christ.

1053
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,600
Yeah, dude, yeah.
That's it.

1054
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,160
That is it.
That's all I need.

1055
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,360
That is all I need.
That is all I need.

1056
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,480
And I still again, Mick, we're
we're guys.

1057
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:28,080
We're humans.
There's days when I wake up and

1058
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:32,360
I need a coffee now or I need
dude, I really need today to go

1059
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,000
well.
I need to win in the biz or but

1060
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,600
I don't.
I don't, you know, like you said

1061
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,040
you were like I need this to
happen in January.

1062
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:47,400
God, I need one kid.
No, I'm going to show you Mick.

1063
01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:50,800
I'm going to show you that you
need me and I'm going to give

1064
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,440
you whatever I want to give you.
That's and you're going to love

1065
01:10:54,440 --> 01:11:01,760
me whether you want to or not.
You know it is.

1066
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,920
It's crazy.
Man, thank you for being so

1067
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,480
transparent with that.
So here's the straightforward

1068
01:11:11,480 --> 01:11:16,160
question.
Yeah, to what extent do you

1069
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:22,360
attribute you eventually bending
the knee, getting on your knees

1070
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:26,680
and surrendering to to Oakley's
death?

1071
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:37,680
I mean, as far as I can see,
knowing, knowing how hard this

1072
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:43,240
head is, you know, and, and
again, if you say, Hey, what's

1073
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:52,560
your, what's your worst enemy?
It's me, you know, I, I just, I

1074
01:11:52,560 --> 01:12:00,320
would say that had to happen.
I, I would say the again, not on

1075
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:04,800
some, not on some ladder or
level of perfection, but the,

1076
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:09,960
the, the 180 that, that I, that
I, I, I would think I would

1077
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:17,360
always look back and say is
that, that, that event again,

1078
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,960
you know, it's like, it's like
I, I try to, I always, I don't

1079
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,920
know, I thought of this a long,
long time ago and it's the only

1080
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:28,280
way I know how to describe it.
It's just if my like right now,

1081
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,680
if God was like, hey, Mick and
Walker, Walker's going to say

1082
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,200
goodbye now.
He's going to leave.

1083
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,960
And and then and if God was
like, hey, Walker, what do you

1084
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:37,880
want to what do you want to
take?

1085
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:41,440
Wherever I'm about to take you,
you know, you got room for, you

1086
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:43,800
know, we're getting on a
Southwest plane.

1087
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:49,560
You get one bag and in that one
bag you can take one thing.

1088
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:55,280
You know that happened that you
saw a 180 not only in your life,

1089
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:59,960
in your family's life, in the in
the branches of like the impact

1090
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:04,280
your family, not even impact,
just just everyone around me.

1091
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,680
There was someone before that
day and someone on the other

1092
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:09,240
side.
Now.

1093
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,720
Now it took a minute.
You know, it was like a fade.

1094
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:16,880
It like came fam, Oakley and
then whoa, that get that gave me

1095
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:20,080
the the end to the word need.
It didn't spell the whole thing

1096
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,240
out, but it was like, OK and.
The first letter.

1097
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,320
You know what I'm saying it just
it do that.

1098
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:34,480
That was the moment where I
think I just a lot of the pride

1099
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:36,480
does.
You can't really hold on to a

1100
01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:38,560
lot of pride in a moment like
that, man.

1101
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,880
I mean, you just when you drive
away from the hospital with your

1102
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:47,080
wife and you like, you know,
your wife, your oops, sorry,

1103
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:52,320
your wife just birthed the kid,
but you're not taking one home.

1104
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:55,520
You know, you got an empty car,
you have the car seat and

1105
01:13:55,520 --> 01:14:00,640
everything and, and your wife's
body is demolished from the

1106
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,440
birth, but you have nothing to
show.

1107
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,480
And you've shared all this
excitement with your, you know,

1108
01:14:07,480 --> 01:14:13,160
it's just that that humility.
I will never look at life

1109
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,800
through the same lens in which I
did that morning driving to the

1110
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:22,320
hospital.
And while it was painful for

1111
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:27,440
that that lens to change, I
don't want to look at life any

1112
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:32,600
other way.
And I often become sad when I'm

1113
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:38,680
forgetful, when I catch myself
going, whoa, have you forgotten?

1114
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:45,440
You've forgotten how God what it
what God has done for you.

1115
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:50,040
Don't forget that, you know.
And so, yeah, I would just say

1116
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,520
again, it's not again.
It's the I'm sure you've heard

1117
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:54,040
the analogy.
It's not the club.

1118
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,520
We're all 16 going.
Man, I hope I get to be in the

1119
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:00,800
lost the kid club.
But I'm going to tell you what,

1120
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:05,240
man, this moment, like writing,
like you and me having this

1121
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:11,080
conversation because of that, I
feel like I'm, I'm capable of

1122
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:16,840
being closer to valuing this
moment more than I ever would

1123
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:18,160
have.
And I love that.

1124
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:21,320
I love that I'm I think it's
supernatural that you and me

1125
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:25,040
bumped into each other, you
know, and that and then we got

1126
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:28,120
to meet in this life, this side
of heaven.

1127
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,760
You know, we're going to see
each other one day and go, dude,

1128
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:32,600
do you remember when we had that
talk?

1129
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:35,040
Anyway, I won't be holding our
kids.

1130
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,120
I'll be like this is Oakley or I
don't know.

1131
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:39,240
I don't know what they'll look
like.

1132
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:43,160
Maybe they'll be like we'll all
be angels with like super mad

1133
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,080
hops or something.
I don't know.

1134
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:50,360
Who knows what that's going to
look like, But won't that be

1135
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,840
sick?
I'll be way better.

1136
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,320
Luke.
Your dad told me about you, bro,

1137
01:15:55,480 --> 01:16:02,200
you know, and so that the fact
that I, you know, kind of wake

1138
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,880
up with just a glimmer, you
know, again, I don't, I don't

1139
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:08,440
know if we can.
I wish we could, man, I wish I

1140
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:12,920
could wake up and just and and
feel whatever heaven feels like

1141
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,400
here.
But I do think that's a slice of

1142
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,440
it.
And I don't think I wouldn't, I

1143
01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:20,840
would have tasted that without
that.

1144
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,520
The the worst day of our life,
you know?

1145
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:32,720
Yeah, Walker.
Oh man, thanks for being so

1146
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:35,000
honest with all of that.
Come on, there's.

1147
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:39,160
So much of it that I can relate
to, you know, one dad who's lost

1148
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,960
a, Oh yeah, lost a baby to
another man.

1149
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:44,760
Absolutely.
Well.

1150
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:50,360
Well, man, let's land the plane
here with the two questions that

1151
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,960
we ask all of our guests.
Yeah.

1152
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:59,560
So, man, we got things like you
being, as you described, right,

1153
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,920
an incredibly functional
alcoholic.

1154
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,840
Yeah, OK.
You're essentially A seasoned

1155
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:10,040
vet in drinking.
And then one day you wake up

1156
01:17:10,440 --> 01:17:15,440
with this feeling of toxicity.
Toxic is the word that she used,

1157
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:18,360
right?
You end up going to church.

1158
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,880
You mean a guy that you decide
to tolerate?

1159
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:27,760
Yeah, right.
Yeah, the exact guy that you

1160
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:29,600
would have loathed.
Totally.

1161
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:33,400
For whatever reason, in that
moment, you tolerated him.

1162
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:39,960
His generosity leads you to
write a song that just so

1163
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:45,000
happens to be 3 minutes and 16
seconds long, right?

1164
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,400
Yeah, one of the ones that I
mean, there's so many good

1165
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,080
things here, dude.
I'm just literally highlighting

1166
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:56,520
a handful of them.
You're you get to 55 S and your

1167
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,080
wallet.
Is.

1168
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,560
Not in the door.
Crazy.

1169
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:11,240
Your daughter dies.
Your wife knows about the

1170
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:17,080
Rosario Butterfield book, and
she tells you about it, and you

1171
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,720
read it and you buy a Bible.
Yeah.

1172
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,920
And eventually you surrender
your life to Christ.

1173
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:26,720
So I got a pretty good idea.
Brother.

1174
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:29,200
You're going to respond to this
question.

1175
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,240
But when we look at things like
this, right?

1176
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:37,720
Are these things coincidences or
is that God on the move?

1177
01:18:38,440 --> 01:18:44,280
I, I, I mean undeniably that
that's God doing what God wants

1178
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:47,320
to do and, and doing it really
good.

1179
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:55,400
That's just what he does.
That's God, you know, and God is

1180
01:18:55,400 --> 01:19:00,760
better than good -1 Oh, you
know, it's but, but dude, he

1181
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:05,080
just, you know, I would say, I
would, you know, if anyone,

1182
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:08,320
again, no one could hear what
you just said.

1183
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:11,360
And that's just like a few of
the.

1184
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:13,240
Oh yeah, even totally scratched
the surface.

1185
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:15,800
Level without each one I was
like, Oh my goodness, there's

1186
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,280
there's other ones around that
one that instance.

1187
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:26,160
But you know, if it was
coincidence, it would have been

1188
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,240
how I would have planned it.
You know, everything you

1189
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:36,280
described is what I didn't want
if if that makes any sense it.

1190
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,880
Is.
It is everything did that

1191
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:49,560
atheist swore I would never be
on some podcast with some guy

1192
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:57,240
shouting the name of just just
just desiring for some dude like

1193
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,800
me.
Just say the name Jesus.

1194
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,760
With with all that you're
feeling and you're broken with

1195
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:08,200
and your emptiness and your,
your curiosity and your

1196
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:15,040
questions and just in the heart
of of the world, just say his

1197
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,280
name with me.
That's the mountain.

1198
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,040
You know, any analogies I read
of, you know, you can take this

1199
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,040
tree and plant it here or move
this mountain.

1200
01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:30,960
I am the mountain that God moved
and my rocks were deep and I was

1201
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:36,320
a volcano ready just to if you
touched me or wanted to move me,

1202
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:40,800
I would just cover you in lava
and just and then and God was

1203
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:47,160
like slid it over, you know,
just and it's just God.

1204
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:52,800
It's again coincidental would
only be like, oh, I would have

1205
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,280
y'all wanted that.
You know, there are things in my

1206
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,320
life where I'm like, I wonder if
that's a that's a cool, you

1207
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:06,400
know, but this is this is anti
what I want, what, you know,

1208
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,680
what I naturally want.
So yeah, I mean, it's all God.

1209
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:16,280
It's, it's all, it's those are
all God on the on the success

1210
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:24,800
side of things.
Now, I do think God lets us get

1211
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:34,560
worldly things.
He lets us buy a car and go, oh,

1212
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,720
wow, it was fun to want that
car.

1213
01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:41,960
I got the car.
I don't feel different because

1214
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:46,640
of the car.
I do think that's like, I think

1215
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:50,200
it's God, but I think a lot of
people look on the outside and

1216
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:52,680
they're like, oh, you got it.
Is it God that gave you the car?

1217
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,960
And I'm like, yeah, well, I got
the car, but I realized the car

1218
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:58,560
wasn't God.
So maybe God gave me the car so

1219
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:04,360
I would so I'd go off God, I
didn't really need that car.

1220
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,080
You know, I think there's a lot
of, I think there's a lot of

1221
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:15,040
those lessons in my life around
success and, you know,

1222
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:20,240
songwriting and chasing dreams
and things like that that I've

1223
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,560
that I've learned and my family
are, we're learning together, if

1224
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:26,360
that makes any sense.
Sure, yeah.

1225
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:29,440
Well, sort of along those lines,
actually.

1226
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:35,480
Let's talk about that a bit.
So Leela suggests that fancy,

1227
01:22:35,480 --> 01:22:37,920
like needs a dance.
OK.

1228
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:43,680
And that catapulted you
unexpectedly.

1229
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:45,920
Tell us a little bit about all
that.

1230
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:50,880
Yeah, Leela, so we had, you
know, COVID comes along.

1231
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:55,280
I'm a new believer over COVID in
the weirdest way.

1232
01:22:55,760 --> 01:23:02,400
I I make a lot of my friends
angry because I am so infected

1233
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:08,720
by this new relationship with
the Lord that COVID doesn't.

1234
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:13,920
We just get like, I mean, we're
running out of money, but at the

1235
01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:17,560
same time, I'm more peaceful
than I've ever been in life.

1236
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:24,480
I just I feel protected.
I feel like I just I'm living

1237
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:29,760
next door to Craig at this time.
So we're COVID ING together as a

1238
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,640
family.
I mean, every day is like we're

1239
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,400
putting on pajamas and I'm like,
damn, go to Craig's.

1240
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:38,000
We're going to write a worship
song today.

1241
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:42,240
I'm so fulfilled.
You know, just, I'm just, I'm,

1242
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:46,080
I'm just everyday learning more
and I'm spending time with my

1243
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,840
kids and dancing is one thing
that I did with Leela.

1244
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,920
I just did it.
I mean, with no, no

1245
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:56,040
expectations, no marketing
purposes.

1246
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:58,960
I just need it.
You know, my team was like, hey,

1247
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,440
Tik Tok's a new thing.
We're going to get you an

1248
01:24:02,440 --> 01:24:04,360
account.
Why don't you Just Dance with

1249
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:05,760
Leela?
Oh, yeah.

1250
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,360
Lila loves to dance.
You know, we'll, we'll do these

1251
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:10,680
things.
She one day we come home from

1252
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:14,480
church right when it gets kind
of gets back into the world.

1253
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:17,480
I've just put out this song
called Fancy Light.

1254
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:21,720
Nothing in my history says that
any of my songs are going to do

1255
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:25,800
anything spectacular.
Radio won't touch me with a 10

1256
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:28,960
foot hole.
It just doesn't sound like

1257
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,160
anything else.
I don't sound like country music

1258
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:39,080
always, you know?
And all the sudden Lila's like

1259
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:44,360
dad, fancy like, needs a dance.
We learned it in less than 30

1260
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,960
minutes.
It's not a spectacular dance.

1261
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:53,520
Any you, any man can do it.
It's crazy how simple this dance

1262
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,280
is.
And we do it.

1263
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:59,080
Laney films it twice.
We laughed, You know, we're on

1264
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:00,800
the porch.
We were laughing.

1265
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:05,480
And I go for a run.
At this point, I'm like doing a

1266
01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:10,120
little 30 minute just ride, just
just peaceful, slow.

1267
01:25:10,440 --> 01:25:16,520
I come back and walk to the
counter and tap my phone and it

1268
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,760
looks different.
I mean, I've never at that

1269
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:23,200
point, we had no, no big
following on TikTok or whatever.

1270
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:29,160
And it said 600,000 views and I
thought it said six.

1271
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,200
And I was like, oh, you know, we
got 6000 views.

1272
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:36,240
You know, this is crazy.
And my, my son Baylor said dad,

1273
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:42,160
that's 600,000 views.
Honestly, my, my initial

1274
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:47,280
response was fear.
It was like, did I did something

1275
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:49,320
happen?
Like did I break?

1276
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,800
I don't know.
I just was like, what's?

1277
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:57,640
And, and I also was like, did we
do something like bad like is

1278
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:02,200
there something, you know, you
never know, you know, And man,

1279
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:07,360
by that night, by the next day,
it was like 13 million. the

1280
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:11,720
Today show's calling me,
Applebee's is calling me.

1281
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:17,320
I mean, all the sudden we're,
we're how like if we go to

1282
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:20,800
Chick-fil-A, people are like,
are you think, can we get a

1283
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:23,880
picture?
You know, I mean, it is like it

1284
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:28,760
is, it is literally overnight.
I mean, you hear that cliche all

1285
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:32,000
the time.
This could not, this could not

1286
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,840
be more overnight.
The, the, the only way it could

1287
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:40,320
is if it happened later in the
day, you know, but, but this

1288
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:44,200
was, you know, this was like 3
in the afternoon to the next

1289
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:49,760
morning.
Your life work wise, will never

1290
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,440
be the same.
Ever.

1291
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,800
Yeah, I love that you.
I I talk about Lila because I

1292
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,920
mean, Simply put, man, that's a
lot of my life.

1293
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:06,400
For all the listeners, Mick has
walked us through my life and

1294
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:14,360
not one of these amazing things
are things that I decided

1295
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:21,280
chased, dreamed of goal boarded,
you know, or whatever, you know,

1296
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:28,400
dream vision boarded like these
are the most insane wild things

1297
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:32,320
and you know, look fancy eyes
awesome.

1298
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:36,320
I love that I have that hit.
I'll tell you what I love the

1299
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:42,840
most about that song is is
literally that I I hope to God

1300
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:49,080
that when I die, I can at least
like lay on a bed and talk to my

1301
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:53,840
loved ones and I will look I
will look Leela in the face and

1302
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:55,880
and listen.
I will I will look her and I and

1303
01:27:55,880 --> 01:28:02,120
go that joy from that day that
you and I shared and the most

1304
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:06,600
fun we had was making it that
rule that will live longer than

1305
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:12,480
me, you or our grandkids and God
is loving people through the

1306
01:28:12,480 --> 01:28:15,440
dumbest song in all of history
of songs.

1307
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:21,160
And it's like that's the jaw of
a donkey and he's just he's just

1308
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:25,000
saying I love you to people in
the weirdest way, in the

1309
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:27,640
weirdest way possible.
And we shared that.

1310
01:28:28,200 --> 01:28:33,040
I mean, Can you imagine, Mick,
when heard if Lord willing, she

1311
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:38,000
has a kid and I get to go, Hey,
I'm a come over Saturday.

1312
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:42,080
Let's teach her the fancy like
dance, you know, I mean, what,

1313
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:46,280
what, what, what even is that?
Like, why why do I get to

1314
01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:49,600
experience that?
And it's so much more than just

1315
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:54,000
Oh yeah, one day I wrote a hit
song and and I and I'm not good.

1316
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:59,240
I'm not a good writer, you know,
no, it's like I get to share.

1317
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:02,920
It's my family's fault.
It's God's fault That that my,

1318
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:08,480
that, that, that Leila and I
have this bond and that that is

1319
01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:11,640
act like a little nugget, a
little slice of heaven.

1320
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:13,840
You know, where you're like, who
knew?

1321
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:17,840
Who knew?
And it's been a cool lesson of

1322
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,640
like, did the song.
You know, there there was a

1323
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:25,120
woman once that came up to me
and she said, she said, my

1324
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:29,120
daughter died and she said my,
she said we weren't really

1325
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:32,800
getting along.
And she said, but you know what

1326
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:36,880
she said?
The last memory I have of her is

1327
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:41,640
we're riding in the car laughing
and dancing to this song.

1328
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:46,280
And again, another, another
jawbone of a donkey mote where

1329
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:55,280
you're like, what a meaningless,
ordinary thing, But God knitted

1330
01:29:55,280 --> 01:30:00,680
them together with this smile
that she will have.

1331
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:04,120
I mean, I'm, I'm like, only God
can do that.

1332
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:07,120
You and I can't do that.
We can't science fair project

1333
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:11,160
that you and I can try all we
want, but we can't, we can't

1334
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:17,040
create moments like that for
people with things that's tiny.

1335
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:23,120
You know, it's crazy.
Yeah, it's amazing.

1336
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:28,160
Yeah, well, you said something a
moment ago when you talked about

1337
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:36,440
how overnight and then you said
my work life changed.

1338
01:30:36,440 --> 01:30:39,440
Oh yeah.
And you paused there, and I

1339
01:30:39,440 --> 01:30:43,000
think you paused because I got
this sneaky sense, man, that

1340
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:46,720
there's a lot of wisdom behind
that clarification, that

1341
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:51,560
overnight my work life changed.
Give us some insight into that.

1342
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:55,720
It in a sense, it was a little
traumatic, you know, for my

1343
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:59,200
family, it, it was whiplash.
You know, at this point, I know

1344
01:30:59,200 --> 01:31:03,520
I described to you with, with
COVID, I was very peaceful for

1345
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:07,400
once in my life about my career
future.

1346
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,840
And I think what I mean is, you
know, in my life, I was

1347
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:18,240
beginning by the, by God's mercy
and grace to die to me.

1348
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,680
And I think I do it each and
every day just a little bit.

1349
01:31:22,200 --> 01:31:27,560
And man, it's there's, there's
some reluctance to it, but once,

1350
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:32,960
once a little part of me dies,
I'm like, oh, yeah, thank you

1351
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:40,400
for killing that, you know, and
and that the career thing was

1352
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,840
kind of dead.
It was like, hey, God, you got

1353
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:45,200
it.
Do with it, you know, whatever.

1354
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:46,880
What do you want me to?
I don't, I don't care.

1355
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:48,360
Are we going to do something
sexy?

1356
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:49,760
Are we going to go on a mission
trip?

1357
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:52,000
Are we going to go back to
Costco?

1358
01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:54,880
I don't know.
You know, Yeah.

1359
01:31:55,600 --> 01:32:00,440
And so then, man, I am just
inundated with the world's

1360
01:32:00,440 --> 01:32:06,080
approval, with the world's
applause, with getting paid for

1361
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:11,320
for gigs amounts that I go.
I think I'm like getting

1362
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:13,720
overpaid.
I mean, am I like I just all I

1363
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:18,680
have is this one hit song, you
know, and and there was an

1364
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:23,320
ickiness, you know, there was
there was a that happens and you

1365
01:32:23,400 --> 01:32:26,200
there there's days where I would
go.

1366
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:31,480
Well, yeah, I am pretty awesome.
They said I'm awesome.

1367
01:32:31,480 --> 01:32:35,600
I I for finally man, finally the
world.

1368
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:39,720
I knew I was awesome the whole
time, you know, and there's that

1369
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:44,120
and then there's there's this
thing that happens with fame

1370
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:47,480
that I I I'm embarrassed, but
I'll be honest.

1371
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:51,560
And this is this is this is that
apple, you know, off of the

1372
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:54,560
world's tree.
This is what happens is some

1373
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:58,600
days you walk into a crowd and
you go, can I just get a minute?

1374
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:04,160
I know y'all know who I am.
Can you just let me have a

1375
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:06,960
moment with my family?
And then there's some days where

1376
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:10,600
I walk in and I go, don't y'all
know who I am?

1377
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:15,880
I'm Applebee's got my leg.
Don't you recognize all of this

1378
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:19,320
gift?
You know, and that is nasty and

1379
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:23,560
that's the that is something
that success.

1380
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:28,240
I guess what I'm trying to say
is everything in the world

1381
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:38,240
dependent on your heart's
response to it can be good and

1382
01:33:38,240 --> 01:33:40,400
bad.
It's it's not that thing.

1383
01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:45,200
It's your heart's land, your
perception, the way that it

1384
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:47,400
recedes, how it how does it
treasure it?

1385
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:52,720
Does it go, Lord, I don't have
this coffee without you.

1386
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:55,800
You grew the bean or whatever it
cherry.

1387
01:33:56,280 --> 01:34:01,280
You made the hands that like
shipped it ground it.

1388
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:07,720
I I have work that I could do to
pay for this cup, this coffee,

1389
01:34:07,720 --> 01:34:11,800
the taste.
How does a plant make me feel

1390
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:17,880
that you know there's gratitude
or there is I deserve this.

1391
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:23,280
I worked for this.
I earned this.

1392
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:27,280
This is my, you know, it's very
childish.

1393
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:32,200
I sound like a kindergartener
getting a toy, but that is that

1394
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:37,040
fame is and and approval and
applause is hard.

1395
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:43,240
It's hard to take you out of it
and go, God, look, there are

1396
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:47,480
some people who do think this is
me and they put people on

1397
01:34:47,480 --> 01:34:50,840
pedestals.
But anything good coming from me

1398
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:53,320
is from you.
It's not coming from me.

1399
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:57,040
I'm not waking up going let let
goodness come from me.

1400
01:34:57,440 --> 01:35:01,480
Any goodness, That moment with
the daughter and the kid, that

1401
01:35:01,480 --> 01:35:04,440
is you, right?
That is you giving them that

1402
01:35:04,440 --> 01:35:07,880
memory.
These people clapping for music,

1403
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:09,800
these people clapping for
lyrics.

1404
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:15,400
Lyrics are from you.
Music is a language you created.

1405
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:19,040
That baffles my mind and I'll
never figure it out.

1406
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,000
But it'll be with us.
It will speak to us.

1407
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:27,440
It'll give us feelings.
Entertainment will be an escape

1408
01:35:27,440 --> 01:35:31,760
for people, a good place for all
of us to root and sing along.

1409
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:37,960
And, and definitely my
receiving, you know, of some of

1410
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:42,320
that stuff was thwarted by my
flesh for sure.

1411
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,760
And my family's we, we walked
through it together.

1412
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:54,880
And just like Oakley, we, we
have walked through the trauma

1413
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:59,160
of all your earthly things
coming true.

1414
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:02,840
It's like a Diet Coke.
There's an after taste of just,

1415
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:08,400
you know, where it's like I
thought it was real, but it's

1416
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:11,920
not.
And you know, what's crazy is

1417
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:15,240
when all of your dreams and
everything you could imagine

1418
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:18,040
successfully come through, You
know, I think of guys who win

1419
01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:22,680
Super Bowls or or women who win
Wimbledon or or anything, you

1420
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:28,520
know, our business men or women
at the peak is very, very

1421
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:35,840
painful to to look at the
reality and go the the man in

1422
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:40,280
the mirror is nothing is healed,
nothing is fixed.

1423
01:36:41,280 --> 01:36:44,960
He's still just as insecure as
he was when he was 13.

1424
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:49,360
That wound still hurts.
This desire still exists.

1425
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:52,920
Still miss my dad still look at
Oakley was sad.

1426
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:58,760
You know, there it that is not
that is a very, very empty

1427
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:03,200
feeling because you kind of
like, well, shoot, there's no

1428
01:37:03,200 --> 01:37:07,840
more roller coasters left on
this theme park of earth.

1429
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:11,280
We did it all.
So now what?

1430
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:15,440
And then you think so I got to
do it again.

1431
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:18,640
I got to just do it again, you
know now.

1432
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:22,560
So there there's definitely
we've learned a lot of lessons

1433
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:27,720
as I, as I assume we will
continue to learn that it that

1434
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:32,400
is that was as traumatic.
I think my wife would say that

1435
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,400
was as traumatic, which is
funny.

1436
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:36,720
Don't you think that's funny,
Mick?

1437
01:37:36,720 --> 01:37:42,240
Like I don't, I don't feel I can
hear that enough from champions

1438
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:47,360
or famous, you know, but I do I,
I don't, I dare you to find me

1439
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:52,120
one that feels different.
You know, I've I've recognized

1440
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:57,200
that with all artists, all of us
who just whoever had a dream and

1441
01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:01,920
we got it.
It never was that dream.

1442
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,640
Never was.
Like living water.

1443
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:07,080
Yeah, we still woke up.
Yeah.

1444
01:38:07,080 --> 01:38:11,040
Thirsty.
Yeah, there's a 60 minute

1445
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:13,920
interview of Tom Brady.
I think it's after his third

1446
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:18,560
Super Bowl and he's literally
saying is this it?

1447
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,760
Yeah.
Is there anything else in life

1448
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:23,640
right, You know so.
Yeah, yeah, it's and, and that

1449
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:27,920
is, that is very disheartening.
But it's OK.

1450
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:35,640
You know, again, I'm glad.
I'm glad to have again that

1451
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:40,560
those pixels, you know that.
I'm glad to know that, you know,

1452
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:44,520
as I walk outside and there's an
old man across my street named

1453
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:46,400
Sam.
And you know what, man?

1454
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:51,480
If he starts talking to me, I'll
cancel everything that I thought

1455
01:38:51,480 --> 01:38:54,680
mattered for the rest of the day
and I'll just chill with him

1456
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:59,720
because I might die tonight and
I'd rather go out talking to Sam

1457
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:05,680
then running on this treadmill
to do fancy like again, you

1458
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:07,960
know, you know, my, my kids will
be OK.

1459
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:12,320
My wife's OK.
They'll, you know, because they

1460
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:16,520
know Jesus, not because of like
they have some job or I have

1461
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:19,800
some insurance policy on me.
You know, those aren't the

1462
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:23,680
reasons they'll be OK.
They'll be, they'll be OK

1463
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:26,960
because they are redeemed.
They, they, they're, they're,

1464
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:30,040
they're knowing the Lord that
they're, they're living with

1465
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:31,400
him.
You know, God is here.

1466
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,960
And yeah, man, they know it.
And we're good.

1467
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:38,200
Everything's good.
Praise God.

1468
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:40,800
Amen.
Last question for you, Walker

1469
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:46,240
Hayes, How has your life changed
based on everything we've been

1470
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:53,960
talking about?
Man, what a great, I'm going to

1471
01:39:53,960 --> 01:40:00,240
try not to try to like be smart
and having some answer and, and

1472
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:05,800
I'm just going to tell you, man.
And again, I'm not, I'm no

1473
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:08,080
theologian, Mick.
I mean, I've, I've, I've

1474
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:11,960
actually dabbled in, I've
audited some seminary thing and

1475
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:14,960
I've actually thought like, man,
I really want to know.

1476
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:19,560
I want to know more, you know,
about, about theology.

1477
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:22,080
I want to know more about the
word of God and.

1478
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:32,160
But I'll tell you this, man, I
just don't think that I don't

1479
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:38,200
think that life is this like
crown jewel in the jewelry

1480
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:49,800
store, if that makes any sense.
You know, I just getting a

1481
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:54,120
little.
I don't I don't want to sell.

1482
01:40:54,160 --> 01:41:02,800
Sound ungrateful.
Who?

1483
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:07,160
I'm sorry.
Take your time brother, we cry

1484
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:12,280
all the time on this show.
Yeah, I don't want to sound, I

1485
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:16,680
don't want to sound ungrateful.
I love life, I love my wife.

1486
01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:20,840
I love my my family, man.
I love my extended family.

1487
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:23,760
I love my team, I love my
dreams.

1488
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:28,440
I love my job.
I mean, I'm, I have no, gosh,

1489
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:32,760
there's not one ounce of me
that's not like so grateful.

1490
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:37,240
I I honestly, I'd tell Laney I'm
like, dude, if I die, I swear

1491
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:41,520
you can, you can without lying.
You can get up and go.

1492
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:45,800
He had the baddest, he had the
sickest life.

1493
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:49,280
Like he didn't even do it.
Like I literally, I swear, dude,

1494
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,400
it all ended the day.
I don't care.

1495
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:56,000
I don't care if some I don't
care if Moses lived to be 960.

1496
01:41:56,320 --> 01:42:01,320
My life was cooler.
I swear I didn't we we stall

1497
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:04,480
metaphorically, red seeds
parted.

1498
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:05,720
I did.
I saw it.

1499
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:09,680
I saw Egyptians slain in the
water.

1500
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:13,000
I saw enemy.
I've I've seen alcohol just get

1501
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:19,520
buried in my life.
I've seen demons flee just and

1502
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:26,520
and so I'm saying, but, but at
the same time, I'm life is not

1503
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:31,680
it's not this like diamond.
It's not the goal anymore.

1504
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:39,320
It's not that's not all it.
You know, I I long, I I long not

1505
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:44,480
to meet Oakley.
Jesus, man, I just I want to

1506
01:42:44,480 --> 01:42:49,400
meet it so bad and I'll wait.
It's fine.

1507
01:42:54,200 --> 01:43:00,600
But yeah, I just, I used to, I
used to have an unhealthy

1508
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:05,320
relationship with life, you
know, and myself.

1509
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:09,720
And so, yeah, dude, it's just
that's life isn't the goal.

1510
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:17,480
Like breathing another breath is
not the end all be all to me.

1511
01:43:17,480 --> 01:43:22,080
And what a life, man.
That makes life suddenly five

1512
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:26,520
times cooler, bro, to wake up
and not go.

1513
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:31,880
The goal is to keep this flesh
young and and healthy and cool

1514
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:36,280
and successful and meaningful to
everybody watching.

1515
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:43,200
Like, man, that freedom to shed
that skin, dude, I feel like a

1516
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:46,280
butterfly.
I must feel after having to be a

1517
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:52,280
crawly Caterpillar for so long,
You know, it's like, it's, it's

1518
01:43:52,280 --> 01:43:56,600
just like, yeah, life is just
not.

1519
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:59,080
It's awesome.
It's great.

1520
01:43:59,160 --> 01:44:03,560
It has purpose.
But you know, I, I want, I'm the

1521
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:08,840
dude, You know, when the guy
they lower the guy through the

1522
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:16,720
roof and the Pharisees in their,
in their brain, they're like, do

1523
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:18,520
you just forgive that dude's
sins?

1524
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:21,760
You didn't just fix his leg.
You know, whatever by by God's

1525
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:25,920
grace, that's what I want, man.
You can leave my legs broken.

1526
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:32,280
Please give me forgiveness and
give me an Ave. to the God, the

1527
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:36,920
creator of all things.
Thank you, son of God, for, for

1528
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:41,480
curing that it 'cause that
that's the real.

1529
01:44:41,480 --> 01:44:43,760
I mean, I don't care.
I don't care if I'm blind,

1530
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:52,080
crippled, just he'll fix my
heart, have my heart, put Jesus

1531
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:55,640
in it, give me to God.
You know, that's it.

1532
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:00,000
That that would be it.
I think prior I would have said

1533
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:09,360
raise Oakley from the dead, give
me a hit, fix my marriage just

1534
01:45:09,360 --> 01:45:12,080
so I can get a season of
perfection in marriage.

1535
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:17,200
You know, you fix this kid, this
kids really shut, this kids

1536
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:19,480
really having a hard time.
This kid has anxiety.

1537
01:45:19,480 --> 01:45:23,160
Heal that anxiety.
Look, I want those things again.

1538
01:45:23,160 --> 01:45:26,400
I'm a human.
This OK?

1539
01:45:27,440 --> 01:45:31,600
It's OK.
You know, I'll ask God to give

1540
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:37,280
my kids that need man capital N
EE D make them need you.

1541
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:40,800
Make them need you.
Please just do God.

1542
01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:45,160
God, come on, don't make them go
to college.

1543
01:45:45,160 --> 01:45:46,440
I don't care if they go to
college.

1544
01:45:46,440 --> 01:45:49,760
No, Just make them need you if
they're homeless and they need

1545
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:51,680
you.
If they're addicts and they need

1546
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:55,160
you if they just make them need
you.

1547
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,560
That was the longest answer I
ever, Mick.

1548
01:45:57,560 --> 01:46:02,800
But dude, you got me with that.
You got me with that question.

1549
01:46:03,480 --> 01:46:06,040
A lot of gratitude over here
this morning.

1550
01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:10,840
Yeah.
Praise God, Man Walker.

1551
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:13,560
It's been tremendous.
It is.

1552
01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:15,000
It has.
Tremendous.

1553
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:17,880
We made it through the difficult
man, through the technical

1554
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:22,080
difficulties man.
Yeah, man, all glory be to God,

1555
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:23,000
dude.
Amen.

1556
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:26,880
What you've shared, what he's
done in your life, what he's

1557
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:31,560
done in my life, man.
And like you said, it's it is

1558
01:46:32,240 --> 01:46:35,720
it's miraculous how he connected
the two of us.

1559
01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:43,320
And I so appreciate how you
illuminated not only your life.

1560
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:48,920
And I mean that man, you really
did you, you unzip the baggage

1561
01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:53,880
and shine the flashlight in and
let us see so much of it to see

1562
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:59,360
how real it was.
But I really so appreciate how

1563
01:46:59,360 --> 01:47:03,800
when we were talking about all
these different things, like the

1564
01:47:03,800 --> 01:47:09,960
coincidental things, right?
And you said none of them were

1565
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:11,640
what you wanted.
None.

1566
01:47:12,160 --> 01:47:17,840
And I can so relate to that.
It's so neat how all of the

1567
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:22,240
stuff that I had planned in my
life, God interrupted it.

1568
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:24,960
He blew it up.
And then he gave me something

1569
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:27,400
better, better than I could have
ever imagined, man.

1570
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:31,640
And it was just so neat to see
from one brother to another,

1571
01:47:31,640 --> 01:47:35,400
just how he's doing the same in
your life as well.

1572
01:47:35,400 --> 01:47:38,720
So it has been a true pleasure
dude.

1573
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:40,640
Thank you having you on and
chatting.

1574
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:43,920
Well, dude, thanks for the
wonderful questions.

1575
01:47:44,440 --> 01:47:48,640
You're good at what you do.
I do a lot of these and that was

1576
01:47:48,640 --> 01:47:51,040
amazing.
And man, thanks for just letting

1577
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:54,400
me let let me share.
I mean, I love I live for this.

1578
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:57,880
This is great and you know, keep
it up.

1579
01:47:57,880 --> 01:48:01,960
I we we need just need to hang
outside of this feel like we

1580
01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:07,600
would be good buddies.
You name it man, glad to do it.

1581
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:09,600
Well, awesome.
Truly, what a great day.

1582
01:48:13,280 --> 01:48:18,280
Was it coincidence or God?
You decide for yourself, but I

1583
01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:22,000
believe you just heard a story
for His glory.

1584
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:26,600
When You Look is powered by
stories just like this and yours

1585
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:30,680
could be next.
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a Guest

1586
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:33,000
or use the link in the
description below.

1587
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:38,160
Be sure to drop us a like, drop
a comment or share this episode

1588
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:41,480
with somebody that needs it.
And until next time, thanks a

1589
01:48:41,480 --> 01:48:43,600
bunch for listening and God
bless.