She Knew She Was Healed Before the Pain Left | Kathleen Johnson | 057

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Having a belief or knowledge
that I was healed before the

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pain was gone sounds crazy, and
it wasn't too long after that

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that that I was physically
healed and the pain went away.

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I did have some attacks of pain
after that, but I was so

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determined to stand on it when I
did.

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It has been gone ever since
without any additional help or

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treatments.
Welcome to When You Look, where

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ordinary people share their
extraordinary experiences and

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you get to decide was it
coincidence or God?

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Kathleen, welcome to When You
Look.

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So Great to have you on the
show.

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I'm so excited to be here.
I've been looking forward to

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this.
So huge on.

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We feel similarly.
Truly glad to have you here.

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There's a lot of really neat
ground that we've got to cover.

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But before we get to that, we
need to learn a little bit about

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you.
So tell us all a little bit

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about yourself.
Hi there.

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Well, thank you so much.
Well, I am a fairly new author

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and teacher and speaker.
I am very passionate about God's

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Word and I have sort of one of
my brand identity things is

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Scripture Girl.
And that was a nickname I was

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given in one of my groups
because I was so passionate

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about Scripture memory.
But without taking you into a

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super long story about that,
it's not this egotistical.

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I know so many verses saying it
is more a world view because I

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look at scripture girl, as we're
all basing our life on something

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whether we realize it or not.
So with everything that is

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always moving around us, what if
we could put our life in on

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something that will not move?
You know, heaven and earth will

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pass away, but my words will
never pass away.

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The word stands firm in the
heaven.

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So I love scripture, I love
teaching it and I'm very

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passionate about my books and,
and teaching and sharing with

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people and helping them rise up
to possess all that we've been

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given in Christ.
It's powerful.

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Yeah, well, we're going to get
into some of that powerful

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stuff, so thank you for giving
us that overview there,

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Scripture Girl.
Certainly there's plenty of

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worse nicknames than that, and
that's really, really neat.

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Thank you for laying all of that
out.

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You've got a really unique story
to share that's got ups and

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downs, so let's jump into it,
give us a little bit of the back

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story and start to walk us
through things as they went for

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you.
Sure thing.

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Well, I was very fortunate in
that I grew up in a very strong

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Christian home without
hypocrisy.

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My dad was an elder.
My mom played the piano.

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We didn't realize how good we
really had it until much, much

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later in our life.
But as I went through my life

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and sort of followed God to the
best of my ability, of course, I

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didn't always do that.
There were times when I was, you

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know, really not following God
the way I should.

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But overall, you know, I always
believed in God, but it wasn't

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until I went through a very
heartbreaking divorce, I had

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never wanted that.
I've always believed and wanted

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a devoted, you know, united
Christian family.

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And some of the things that were
tied to that were very hard.

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There was betrayal.
There was all that.

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And I realized in that process
that I did not have my faith

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rooted and grounded fully in God
because I was so afraid.

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I mean, I was just living in
fear and it was not the right

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way to live.
Thankfully, I knew at least to

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see God.
I knew that God was the answer.

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So in that period I tried to
seek him the best way that I

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knew how by spending more time
with Him.

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I became passionate about the
Scripture memory.

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And then other meditations
actually sprung forth from that.

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I mean, that one, you know,
focus of giving God more of my

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attention and focusing more on
His word is actually what led to

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meditation.
And that led to other spiritual

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disciplines like fasting.
And now I'm able to look back

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and realize all of those things
when you do them, we often

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neglect those because we think
they're, you know, legalistic

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and stuff.
But we're missing it when we do

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that because when we give more
power to the Spirit, the Holy

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Spirit has more access to us.
And those things like fear, you

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know, perfect love casts out
fear and we start to get

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stronger and stronger.
So instead of living in fear,

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it's just like the prophet
Isaiah said, trust in the Lord.

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The Lord himself is a rock,
eternal.

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And not only that, he keeps them
in perfect peace, his mind to

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stay on him because he trusts in
him.

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So as we start to trust God, we
have more and more peace.

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But anyway, through through kind
of some period of up and downs,

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I ended up going through some
additional challenges.

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I had probably some forgiveness
issues that I had to deal with

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and that may have been tied to
some of my some of my physical

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problems.
But I ended up going through a

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season of very difficult chronic
pain and degenerative disc

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disease and other complicating
factors.

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And so all of that led me down a
road of seeking God like never

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before and reaching out to Him
to receive healing from him.

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And that's kind of what landed
me in in the place where I've

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been the last several years.
Well, Kathleen, there's a,

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there's a lot there.
I want to explore some of it a

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tiny bit more before we kind of,
you know, keep going as as you

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were describing in terms of, you
know, sort of current state.

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So help us understand a bit more
about the fear that you were

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describing earlier.
Well, absolutely, I was not able

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to get up in everyday without
feeling insecure about the

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future.
I felt like, you know, my life

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had been flipped upside down and
I just was having a really hard

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time managing my emotions.
You know, I was doing a lot of

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binge eating.
I was just looking for a way to

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comfort myself.
And we do that so much.

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You know, now, many years later,
I have a better understanding,

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understanding of idolatry and
how, you know, we have to have

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ourselves rooted and grounded in
God.

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We have to be the branch of the
vine because if we're not doing

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that, we're trying to get
sustenance from something else.

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And even though we have these
people, our spouses, our

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children, you know, our friends
and family, they're, they have

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the potential to be wonderful.
But when they're not, if we

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don't have God to stand on, you
know, when those things are

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shaken, we're left in a really
bad spot And we realize we're

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trying, you know, we're
withering off the vine is what

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what is happening because the
Spirit gives life and the Spirit

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of God flows through us in him.
We live and move and have our

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being.
So when we are not doing that,

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that's where fear comes from.
You think about the very

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beginning, where did fear come
from?

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It came during the fall.
You know, man was God reliant

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and when he started to make his
own calls, that's when he was

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self reliant.
And so we think self-reliance is

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such a great thing.
I'm self reliant.

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Wrong. self-reliance is an
absolute disaster because we are

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limited in that state.
We don't have the power of God

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flowing through us.
And that's where all the other

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stuff comes from, all the strife
and the war and the competition

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and the fear and you know, it
all comes from there.

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So like that is one of those
epiphanies that you have in

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life, you know, like, oh, that's
what surrender means.

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It means to stop trying to do
all this on your own and instead

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realize what Jesus said, abide
in me and I in you.

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Apart from you can do nothing.
We have to be hooked into him.

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And when we are, we can have
that spiritual life and

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vitality, the living water
flowing through us so that we're

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not white fisting our way
through life.

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That doesn't work.
How did you get to that point

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where you were able to move from
the fear to abiding in Him?

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Well, I started doing a lot of
study, a lot of time with God, a

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lot of I started some
meditation.

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I also was studying the concept
of surrender.

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I knew that surrender was tied
to the power of the Holy Spirit.

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But for such a long time, I had
such a misunderstanding of what

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that meant.
And I ended up having the

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epiphany of, of epiphanies about
that.

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And I'd love to share that for
your listeners because it was

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absolutely life changing for me.
You know, we are triune beings,

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we are body, soul and spirit.
And when we accept Christ, we

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are given a new spirit in him
that is created to be like him

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and true righteousness and
holiness.

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And that's where the Holy Spirit
comes to dwell.

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And we are meant to be led by
the Spirit.

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Those who are led by the Spirit
are the children of God.

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And if we do that, we don't have
all the fear and stuff, but but

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the all the unbelief, all that
stuff resides in our soul.

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Our soul is our mind, will and
emotions.

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And you can think of your
natural mind being like a

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computer.
You know, it's just programmed

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with whatever you've been taught
since you've been a child.

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And so that's where renewing
being transformed by the

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renewing of the mind comes in.
And when Jesus said whoever

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wants to save their life will
lose it, but whoever loses his

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life for me will find it.
That word that he used is

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sukkah, which is soul.
It's the Greek word for it's the

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soul life, not he's not trying
to cross us out.

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He's trying to get us to submit
our our natural mind to him did

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not lean on our own
understanding to present our

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bodies as a living sacrifice.
And holy cow, when we to do

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that, we are going to feel the
living water because we're going

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to in that place.
Finally, at long last, we will

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not be quenching the spirit,
grieving the spirit, blocking

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the work of the spirit because
it's the spirit that gives us

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life and vitality and strength.
So that was an epiphany, but it

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didn't come overnight.
It came after a lot of seeking

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God and just kind of landing
where I was still burned out,

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worn out, frustrated.
But that one epiphany when I

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started doing that, my life
started to change in a great

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deal.
So.

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Yeah, thank you for sharing
that.

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And for those that are
listening, meaning not watching,

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Kathleen was very impassioned
about seeking.

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Her body language was very clear
about that.

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So describe for us like what
that was like for you and how

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you were seeking.
We know Scripture talks about

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earnestly seeking God and you
sort of frankly, we're kind of

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displaying some of that, but I
think a lot of our listeners

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aren't necessarily familiar with
practical ways to seek God.

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So give us a sense for what you
did and and what ultimately was

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leading you towards that
epiphany.

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Well, a couple of things just
right off the bat, we are

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commanded to set our minds on
things above, but a lot of times

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we don't realize what that
means.

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And it sounds like a spiritual
saying to us.

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And what I realized it means, it
does mean focusing on his word.

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And one thing that happened to
me is instead of like going over

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all the bad things that had
happened to me all the time and

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having these like negative
thoughts and fears of the

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future, I started waking up with
a song in my heart or a song,

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you know, just these things
would start coming out of my

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heart.
And I was able to teach him my

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to my children.
And when you focus on the

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whatever it is that you're
focusing on, that's the thing

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that's going to change you.
You're going to be changed.

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You can't not be changed.
And so focusing on his word.

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And for me, he was only a few
minutes a day to start.

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That's the crazy part.
When I look back, it was only

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just a few minutes a day of
switching from one focus to

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another focus.
So when you hear in culture

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sometimes or even it's taught,
you know, what you focus on

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expands.
And we think, oh, that's some

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other thing.
No, that's biblical.

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That's why we're commanded to
set our minds and things about.

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That's why we have to think
about whatever is true, whatever

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is honorable, whatever is pure,
whatever is just.

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If we don't think about that, if
I'm thinking about my X-rays and

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my MRI and how I can't play with
my kids and how much pain I'm

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in, I'm just blowing that thing
up.

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And so these things, meditating
on the word, thinking about it,

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focusing on it, imagining good
things, all of those things work

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together.
And what you're doing is just,

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you know, you're rewiring and
recoding your mind.

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It's like neuroplasticity.
That's what this stuff really

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is, is something that that God
told us first.

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Yeah, Solomon said.
There's nothing new under the

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sun and it is interesting to see
how, you know, lot, lots of

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scientific things are really
just repackaged scripture when

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you really start to look at it,
you know.

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So tell us a little bit about
some of the health challenges

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that you encountered.
Sure.

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Well, I had had cervical spine
surgery many, many years ago and

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I started having issues again,
but then I started having other

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complicating issues.
And so I was going through all

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these treatments.
There was all these different

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things that they were trying and
I got to a place.

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There was a lot of other things
too.

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You know, there's bone spurs and
spinal stenosis and facet

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syndrome and it was just waking
up in crushing pain and

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absolutely crying out to God
because I didn't want to keep

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living like this.
I mean, when when I hear

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somebody that has situations
that are so much worse than

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mine, of course I can't pretend
to know what they're going

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through.
But what I do remember is how

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helplessness starts to crowd you
out.

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You know, it starts to, it
starts to invite you in.

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And because I had spent enough
time with God, I was absolutely

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determined not to let that
happen.

250
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But I did have to stand before
God and say, show me what I'm

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missing.
Show me what I'm missing.

252
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I know and believe that you can
heal me.

253
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I believe that you can change
me.

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And so something has to happen.
And I feel like what he showed

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me in that time is that my
belief and my, you know, focus

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on him had to go deeper.
We have so much that's in our

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conscious mind, but 95% is in
our unconscious.

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We have to go deeper.
That's why meditation can be so

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powerful, because it is one of
those things that can sort of

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sink down into the deepest part
of us.

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And when that happens, we see
real change.

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Tell us what that change was
like for you.

263
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Well for me it was having a
belief or a knowledge that I was

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healed before the pain was gone.
Sounds crazy.

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And when I wrote my book Heal
the Heal, there were some other

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people that described an
experience like this because

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things happened in the unseen
first they happened in the

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unseen and then they come into
the scene.

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And so for me, I just had to
feel an awareness like I am

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healed.
I am healed, I'm yielding him.

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And it wasn't too long after
that that that I was physically

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healed and the pain went away.
I did have some attacks of pain

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after that, but I was so
determined to stand on it when I

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did.
It has been gone ever since

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without any additional helper
treatments.

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It's truly been miraculous.
Yeah, wow, over like, how long

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ago is this?
Over three years.

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I mean, it was one of those
things that I was told I would

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continue to decline for the rest
of my life, that if there was

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any potential help that it may
be, you know, stem cell therapy

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00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:49,800
could help.
Is that you know, is that sure

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that could work?
No, you know, there was, I was

283
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given no guarantee.
And that's what, because I've

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become so passionate about this,
I would tell anybody if you want

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to go with what the doctors say,
that's fine, but you're going to

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have to, you're going to have to
take whatever they give you.

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00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,560
And, and doctors and nurses are
wonderful and the medical

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community is wonderful for
helping the grace for humanity.

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But there's only one way to go
higher than that, and that is to

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go to the spiritual realm,
because with God all things are

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possible.
Indeed they are.

292
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,480
So tell us a little bit more
about what you're doing

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00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,360
currently.
Well, I felt like God had given

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me a call to write for a long
time, and I wasn't really

295
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,840
obedient to that until just a
couple of years ago, I wrote a

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book called Something to
Forgive.

297
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,520
And that is also tied to all
these other things too.

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It it deals with when we don't
forgive, what that really is and

299
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,840
how that sort of connects us
with that person.

300
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,120
Forgiveness is not what we often
think it is.

301
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,960
It's not trust.
It's not giving up on justice.

302
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,600
It is releasing ourselves from
the bond with that person.

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00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,480
And in my book, I talk about how
people that can see in the

304
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,080
spirit are able to see that,
actually see it like a chain

305
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,080
that is there.
And you know, we hear about

306
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,120
things like quantum entanglement
or even some of the neuroscience

307
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,160
that you'll read about, like
what we think about it, it can

308
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,120
chain us.
And so by letting go those

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00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,400
things, we release ourselves so
that we can fully receive the

310
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,680
healing that God wants to give
us.

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And so that was a book and then
other books I've written as

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00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,920
well.
But the newest book, Heal the

313
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,080
Heal, I'm so passionate about it
because as I was seeking my own

314
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,760
healing, I started to dive into
this and just really read and

315
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,800
study the divine healing
movement in America, generals of

316
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,000
healing from past to present.
And realized that there were so

317
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,160
many other people like me that
experienced a healing and then

318
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,600
wanted to tell other people and
help them remove blocks.

319
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,640
Because sometimes there are
blocks that we can that can be

320
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,880
removed and then we can receive
our healing and that is so

321
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,600
powerful.
Yeah.

322
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,320
Tell us a bit more about the
blocks.

323
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,840
That's intriguing.
There are known blocks, right?

324
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,520
There are blocks that we are
given these things.

325
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,000
It's not just something we're
making up the scriptures, you

326
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,600
know, show us these things.
You know, unbelief is a huge

327
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,840
block.
You know, we're told that, you

328
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,840
know, if we say to this mountain
move and and believe it in our

329
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,320
heart, it will be done for us.
I don't think we realize how big

330
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,840
our unbelief is, how big of a
block that is, because God does

331
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,840
require us to come in faith.
He requires us to come in faith.

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00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,240
And we have examples like the
woman with the issue of blood.

333
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,600
She was suffering for 12 years
and she kept getting worse, not

334
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,600
better.
And thankfully, instead of her

335
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:32,400
turning, you know, despair
taking over her life, she let

336
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,480
determination take over her
life.

337
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,120
And I feel in my heart that she
just decided to believe, which

338
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,560
is something that I talk about
as well, like a decision to

339
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,560
believe.
You're, you know, all of us are

340
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,320
waiting.
I want to see, I want to see.

341
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,480
I want to see, I pray, I want to
see, I pray and then I go look

342
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,560
and just like your your show, I
mean, we're looking there.

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00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,640
There is the kind of testimony
that that we can look at and

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00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,880
that we're supposed to look at.
You know, Jesus even said

345
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,720
believe based on the works that
I do that that is an aspect of

346
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,200
this, but it does.
It's not for all things.

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00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,640
We're to have faith and we're to
believe because sometimes we end

348
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,000
up bringing God's word down to
our experience because when

349
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,079
something doesn't happen, like
we think, we make a conclusion

350
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,079
about that.
And because we're limited, that

351
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,240
conclusion may be wrong.
There may have been

352
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,160
unforgiveness.
There may have been

353
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,960
unworthiness, which is another
block.

354
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,160
There may have been something
they're blocking it.

355
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,520
And when we just simply say, Oh,
well, that must not be what God

356
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,400
wants, we're missing something
there.

357
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,120
And this is something that I
found in my own studies that was

358
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:38,120
proven and lived out by people
that ended up not just receiving

359
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,600
their own healing, but turning
and administering that to

360
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,360
thousands of other people.
And when you read about the

361
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,520
stories, it will change your
life.

362
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,280
It will expand your faith.
Yeah.

363
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,520
You brought up a really
interesting point there,

364
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:55,080
Kathleen, about decisions.
And I want to kind of come back

365
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,800
to this a little bit because,
you know, one of the reasons

366
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,160
that we serve things up here on
when you look as was it

367
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:06,000
coincidence or God is because
there's all kinds of incidences

368
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,240
that happen in the world and in
people's lives where they very

369
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,640
well may think that was chance,
that was luck, that was

370
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,200
coincidence.
And others encountering the

371
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,080
exact same scenario say that it
was God.

372
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,880
And so we're very clear that
this that that faith is a

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00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,800
decision and you were really
actually kind of driving at that

374
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,400
as well.
So tell us a little bit more

375
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,320
about all of that from your
experience.

376
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,480
Well, before I do that, that's a
really good question and it's so

377
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,960
powerful because I've been
studying this because one of the

378
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,240
things that I feel like it's
going to be my life work is

379
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,840
helping people realize there is
a work of belief.

380
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,400
Just like when Jesus said, you
know, what are the works we must

381
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,240
do?
And he said the work of God is

382
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,360
this to believe in the one he
sent, we received grace from

383
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,640
God.
That's free, you know, but

384
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,440
belief is something that we have
to put sometimes we have to put

385
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,520
some work in it because we
believe something else.

386
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,120
And so one of the things I've
learned about the way our mind

387
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,040
works is that like your
reticular activating system,

388
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,440
this is like when you go and
you're starting to look for a

389
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,120
car and all of a sudden you see
that car everywhere on the road.

390
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,960
It's not just now that the cars
were there, It's just that you

391
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,360
noticed it.
And if you go to John 12, you

392
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:17,920
know the story where there was
a, you know, a voice that came

393
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,440
from heaven and some people
thought it just thundered.

394
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,360
And see what I believe happened
is some of those people were not

395
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,320
spiritually trained to their
minds were not trained to see

396
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,720
that, you know, just like some
people, you know, there's been

397
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,720
stories about people with near
death experiences and they

398
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,440
thought they saw like flickering
lights and others see angels.

399
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,760
It's like how developed are my
spiritual senses?

400
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,080
I think there are things that
God is trying to show us all the

401
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,800
time.
He says, my sheep hear my voice

402
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,640
and whoever belongs to God hears
what God says, but we don't hear

403
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,000
because we're not aligned to
hear.

404
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,760
And so I believe that is so true
in all these other categories as

405
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,080
well.
I mean, one of the things that I

406
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,200
like to teach is look for the
tender mercies, look for the

407
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,480
good things, expect us those
things.

408
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,920
And then your mind will be
trained to see those things.

409
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,720
And as long as you know, we
don't realize too, that we're

410
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,920
always giving ourselves messages
just by our thoughts.

411
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,720
There's chemicals that we're
leasing into our blood and the

412
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,360
life of the creatures in the
blood.

413
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,800
Hello.
We have to think good things,

414
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,680
good thoughts.
It's impacting us.

415
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,760
And so again, all these things
are tied together.

416
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,480
If I decide to believe I'm
telling my my mind this is

417
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,880
what's up.
I'm going to Jesus for healing.

418
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,440
He said that all things are
possible.

419
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,960
I'm going to believe that it
doesn't matter if I don't see it

420
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,840
yet.
What matters is that the Word of

421
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,280
God is true and every word that
comes from the mouth of God, it

422
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,200
is eternal.
That's it and that's all.

423
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,280
And so I'm going to stand on
that until that thing manifests

424
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,480
into the same world period in
Jesus name.

425
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,120
So, yeah, very, very intriguing
with all of this.

426
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:50,040
OK, so I'm, I'm asking this next
question entirely from an

427
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,760
intellectual curiosity
standpoint, OK.

428
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:58,440
And I'd like to understand the
distinction.

429
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,840
And I think there probably
really is 1 from what you were

430
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,320
just describing about, I'm going
to choose to believe versus what

431
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,440
some people often call the name
it and claim it type of

432
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,280
scenario.
So I suspect that you can

433
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,720
differentiate those for us.
So please do.

434
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,320
Well, I would initially, I would
quote FF Bosworth who said faith

435
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,960
begins where the will of God is
known.

436
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,600
And this is a man who saw more
than 250,000 healings in his

437
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,880
ministry, who received divine
healing when he was basically on

438
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,600
his deathbed, and who realized
and studied the scriptures and

439
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,520
what he was able to see.
And this is one of the quotes

440
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,240
that I have memorized and it's
so powerful with the simple

441
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,960
presentation of enough of the
written word of God to the minds

442
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,200
and hearts of the incurably
afflicted, they can be brought

443
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,400
to the same state of a certainty
and assurance regarding the

444
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,960
healing of their body as to the
salvation of their souls.

445
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,320
And what he did is he did a
blazing study of all the

446
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,120
Scriptures that pointed to Jesus
as the revealed will of the

447
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,640
Father.
And by his wounds we are healed.

448
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,120
And you know, Jehovah Rapha as
the covenant name of God.

449
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,280
And he wrote a book called
Christ the Healer, which has

450
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,200
been, which is still widely
imprinted today.

451
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,520
He's not the only one.
There's so many other ones, but

452
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,280
he was never suggesting that we
should just go off and just

453
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,000
claim anything in the world.
We should align ourself with the

454
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,280
the will of God.
But one of the things that I

455
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,360
have found in my own life is if
we don't understand there are

456
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:26,480
different types of prayers,
Every prayer is not the same

457
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,840
prayer.
The prayer of faith.

458
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,320
If there's a prayer of faith at
all, it has to be based on

459
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,960
something.
It can't be, you know.

460
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,600
Well, I don't know.
I mean, there's a prayer of

461
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:35,960
guidance, you know, where should
I go?

462
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,600
What should I do?
I need guidance from you.

463
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,560
But God Express expects us to
align with his revealed will and

464
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,760
agree with it and believe it.
He's expecting us to show faith.

465
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,400
And when we don't do that
because we think we're

466
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,880
overstepping, we end up missing
out because there are many

467
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,560
things that we don't possess
that God has made available to

468
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:55,360
us.
If you think about the

469
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,080
Israelites, they never even
possessed all the land that they

470
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,280
were supposed to possess.
That's true for us.

471
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,400
We're so worried about
overstepping that we end up, you

472
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,960
know, we end up not rising as
far as we're supposed to rise.

473
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,520
I think the greater danger is
not that we go too far is so we

474
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:13,000
don't go far enough.
Wow, say a little bit more about

475
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,800
that.
I track with you on that, but

476
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,240
that was a was a neat way to end
that segment.

477
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,760
But let we got to keep going on
that.

478
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,760
Well, I mean, these are people,
again, when I went and studied

479
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,400
this, OK, I studied these people
and I would say look at the

480
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,960
fruit, look at the fruit of the
mystery and see what that

481
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,600
reveals.
You know, you have somebody like

482
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,720
TL Osborne.
He wanted to go to India and

483
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,000
preach the gospel and he wanted
to see signs and wonders didn't

484
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,160
happen.
He was in defeat.

485
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,200
He came back to the US just
could have been like in total

486
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,160
despair, but decided to pray and
fast and see God like he'd never

487
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,200
done so before.
He and his wife decided to read

488
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,120
the New Testament like fresh the
fresh eyes and coming out of

489
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,280
that experience, he had a
revelation of the risen Christ

490
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,040
and he had a new revelation that
God did want to work through us

491
00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,680
as vessels in a very powerful
way.

492
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,400
But we often land on these
traditions and and just we make

493
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,080
agreements with that.
You know, it's just like Jesus

494
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,680
said, you nullify the power of
the word of God, but the

495
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,960
traditions you've handed down,
and we do that.

496
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:13,280
So he went back out expecting
these miracles and they came.

497
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,720
So these people that are
teaching these things, when you

498
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,240
study, you're realizing that if
we don't get clear that God

499
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,840
wants us, well, how could we
possibly expect those things to

500
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,320
happen?
It's like standing on quicksand.

501
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,920
And I believe that most of the
time the reason is that we have

502
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,800
decided, oh, it must not be
God's will because of this and

503
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,880
this and this.
But if you do a really devoted

504
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,240
study of the Scriptures on this
and follow through, I think you

505
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,240
will come to the conclusion that
it is God's will to heal us.

506
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,360
And that it is almost always
something that's happening in

507
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:50,040
the unseen, the unworthiness,
the unbelief, the tradition,

508
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,600
whatever it is, something that's
blocking it.

509
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,080
Yeah, gotcha.
Thanks for giving us a little

510
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,480
more color on that.
Well, one of the things you

511
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,680
mentioned at the outset,
Kathleen, was the phrase

512
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,520
spiritual disciplines, and I
want to explore that more with

513
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,760
you.
So tell us about spiritual

514
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,200
disciplines.
Maybe start by defining them for

515
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,200
our listeners, and then tell us
about ones you're very

516
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,320
passionate about.
Well, the spiritual disciplines

517
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,480
are things like prayer, you
know, like fasting, like

518
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,600
meditation, like silence and
solitude.

519
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,560
And throughout church history,
these have been taught in

520
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,840
different eras and in different,
you know, you know, quantities

521
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,720
or emphasis.
But I think in our modern

522
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,280
church, we have really missed
some, some of the most powerful

523
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,680
ones.
And why does it matter so much?

524
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,480
The reason it matters is that if
you look at the New Testament as

525
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,360
a whole, especially the writings
of the Apostle Paul, he

526
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:50,920
instructed us to walk by the
Spirit, to crucify the flesh, by

527
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,600
the Spirit, put to death the
misdeeds of the body, you know,

528
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,800
and he said that the Spirit
desires what is contrary to the

529
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,720
flesh and the flesh what is, you
know, contrary.

530
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:01,440
And so they're at war with each
other.

531
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,840
And if we don't do these things
to make the Spirit stronger, we

532
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,320
end up in what I like to call a
Roman 7 hell where we want to do

533
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,160
something good, but we can't
carry it out because the power

534
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,800
to carry it out comes from the
Holy Spirit.

535
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,240
And so many people, they, you
know, what I'd like to say is

536
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,760
that they're saved, but not
surrendered.

537
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,840
So they've accepted Jesus
Christ.

538
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,640
I'm going to heaven.
You know, I have this potential

539
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,920
now that this new spirit, but
that new spirit comes in as a

540
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,000
baby.
And if all I ever do is, you

541
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,120
know, if I don't ever feed that
spirit, it doesn't grow, it

542
00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,920
doesn't expand.
And so if you have two believers

543
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,200
and they both have the Holy
Spirit and one of them is like

544
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,480
powerful in prayer and the other
one isn't, there's a couple

545
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,280
things going on there.
One of them is their level of

546
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,200
surrender.
In other words, my body and my

547
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,600
soul not standing in the way,
not blocking.

548
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,600
And the other one is the the
building up of my human spirit,

549
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,000
my recreated born again spirit.
It's just like if you look at

550
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,880
Romans 816 where it says he
himself testifies with our

551
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,360
spirit that we are God's
children.

552
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,560
There's two spirits in that, in
that verse and one's capital

553
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,840
S1's lowercase human spirit,
Holy Spirit, and they're meant

554
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,520
to work as an alliance.
So if I understand what

555
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,320
spiritual disciplines are doing
for me, I'm going to want to do

556
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,800
them all the time because think
about it, as I strengthen the

557
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,480
spirit, it is the spirit that
brings life.

558
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,720
And now I can be filled to the
measure with all the fullness of

559
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,840
God.
The same power that raised Jesus

560
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,800
Christ from the dead is living
in and through me.

561
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,640
And I can expect for that to
change my life.

562
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,040
Because when we're stuck in
these addictions and these

563
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,920
practices, we can do these
spiritual disciplines.

564
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,120
And it's like, it's like Popeye
who was like eating the spinach.

565
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:41,880
Most of the listeners probably
don't even know who that is,

566
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,080
but.
I do, yeah.

567
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,080
You strengthen the Spirit and
the Spirit kicks the bullies off

568
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,640
the street because live by the
Spirit and you will not gratify

569
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,240
the desires of the sinful
nature.

570
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,600
We have the potential to be
hooked up to the most powerful

571
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,120
force in the universe, but we
have to get out of the way and

572
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:02,360
we have to.
Like I used to always say, Tony

573
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:05,040
Robbins has that book Unleash
the Giant Within, and I've never

574
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,400
read it, but his title is
genius.

575
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,840
It's genius for Christians
because as Christians, that's

576
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,000
what we're supposed to do.
We're supposed to be unleashing

577
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,840
the giant, the power of the Holy
Spirit, and then through us to

578
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,920
do what?
To bring people from darkness to

579
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,280
light and from the power of
Satan to God.

580
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,480
Not just for me, me, me, but so
that I can share the love of God

581
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,120
with the world and to the
measure that I'm surrendered to

582
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:25,880
the Holy Spirit.
That's exactly what will happen.

583
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,560
Yeah, well, you and I had
chatted previously and you told

584
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,120
me a little bit about some
amazing things that have

585
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:39,640
occurred during some of your
times practicing a spiritual

586
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,680
discipline known as fasting.
Highlight some of that stuff for

587
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,320
us.
Absolutely.

588
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,720
I have grown in a lot of ways
and I still have a long way to

589
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,640
go, but some of the things that
I used to really struggle with,

590
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,920
I used to scream at my kids.
I used to really get anxious and

591
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,480
have a lot of binge eating and
stuff like that.

592
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,320
God has brought me
transformation.

593
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,880
I didn't think was possible.
I just didn't think it was

594
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,480
possible.
And so anybody that is

595
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,040
struggling with any kind of
addiction or if we strengthen

596
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,440
the Spirit, it's not you trying
to, because when we try to do it

597
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,160
in our strength, we are going to
fail.

598
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,600
We need God's power.
OK, So what does fasting do?

599
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,600
Fasting subdues the soul and
exalts the spirit.

600
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,080
OK, so we're not taught fasting
that much, but I started to

601
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,400
learn a little bit about it.
I started to incorporate it into

602
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,880
my life on a regular product
basis on and off.

603
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,160
And I still remember the day
that my youngest daughter came

604
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,680
up to me and she said, Mommy,
you don't yell at us anymore.

605
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,120
And I just looked at her and I
thought, I don't, but I wasn't

606
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,680
fasting for that.
I was probably fasting for

607
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,520
something else.
You know, maybe it was for my

608
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:45,840
business.
Maybe it was for this.

609
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,600
The point is simple.
When the spirit starts to work

610
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,840
through you, the things that
used to drive you crazy is

611
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,800
because your flesh is no longer
in control.

612
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,160
Your flesh, when it comes under
the leadership of the spirit, we

613
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,680
now it, it's, it's flooded with
vitality.

614
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,720
It's not that he just wants to
change us in this one place.

615
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,640
He wants to change his mind,
body and spirit, right.

616
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,160
So when we start to see that and
another one was absolutely life

617
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,560
changing.
I had gone through this divorce.

618
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,160
This is way before there was all
these great things going on with

619
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,560
the market.
We had this house and it had a

620
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,600
driveway that was like a
launchpad into this into the

621
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,880
sky.
And people would come and then

622
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,600
they would turn around and
driveway without even going to

623
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,160
the listing.
And you know, you know, some

624
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,640
time went by and I knew I had to
sell the house.

625
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,640
I had to downsize.
And I prayed and fasted.

626
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,040
I did a longer fast.
And I just asked God to show us

627
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,920
something.
Show me something.

628
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,880
Just show the world just this
something just from you, just as

629
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,760
you know what we've been
through, please give us

630
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,920
breakthrough.
Well, ultimately, when the house

631
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,880
did sell, there was a whole
bunch of things that happened,

632
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,440
but it ended up selling $10,000
over asking price.

633
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,080
OK, way before that was a thing.
Right before this man what?

634
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,720
You know.
Later on we went and asked the

635
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,800
guy, he said I've been doing
this for 26 years.

636
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,040
He said it's never happened.
He said I put the price in

637
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,280
wrong.
We'll see.

638
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,360
I know it.
I know that that God had, you

639
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,040
know, had given us that and it
was just wonderful.

640
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,200
And it was the first people that
came to look at the house that

641
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,200
bought the house.
So that changed me forever.

642
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,840
It's just like when God answers
you in that kind of way, you'll

643
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,840
never look at life the same.
You will know that He brought

644
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,560
something just to you just in
response to your prayer.

645
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,800
And all you do is want more.
You just want more of Him.

646
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,160
Yeah.
Well, you've started to get at

647
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:35,040
the two questions that we frame
up when we kind of land these

648
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,120
conversations.
So let's just jump right into

649
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:39,960
those.
I mean, I think we got a pretty

650
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,120
clear idea of of how you're
going to answer this, but let's

651
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,920
just stay here on the sale of
the house, just as an example.

652
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,160
I mean, there's clearly been
healing.

653
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,840
There's many other things.
So were those coincidental

654
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,960
things or is that God on the
move?

655
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,040
It's got in the move without a
single question.

656
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,880
There were other little whispers
in it, like God puts his things

657
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,520
into into these circumstances
to, to help us see if we're

658
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,120
looking for that.
If we're looking for that, we

659
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,000
will see it and we'll never be
the same after that.

660
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,320
He's willing to work all things
together.

661
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,520
He is willing to give us the
desires of our heart.

662
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,680
He's willing to surprise us with
tender mercies every single day.

663
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,080
We should look for them.
Yeah, I tracked with you on that

664
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,600
for sure.
Well, you were kind of talking

665
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,440
about this in terms of the
change in how things went with

666
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,480
the sale of the house as being a
really pivotal moment for you.

667
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,920
How did life change or how has
life changed for you as a result

668
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,360
of all of that?
Well, I'll tell you one thing.

669
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,600
I like I say, the fasting, the
scripture memory, the

670
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,920
meditation, it continues to
change my life.

671
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,400
It continues to change my life.
And so once you see what's

672
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,320
possible, it's just like taste
and see that the Lord is good.

673
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,520
You realize that there's
something there.

674
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360
And even if you just touch, you
know, it's not like it.

675
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Everything completely just
smooths out.

676
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,600
I mean, you have to continue to
see God, but when you start

677
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,920
going after this one thing,
you're trying to get something

678
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,640
from God and start asking for
God.

679
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,440
I just want God.
You know, it's like this poem

680
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,640
that AB Simpson, who's one of
the guys in my book wrote.

681
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,680
He said once it was the it's a
blessing.

682
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,560
Now it is the Lord.
Once it was the feeling, now it

683
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,400
is his word, once his gifts I
wanted, now the giver own once I

684
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,080
sought for healing, now himself
alone.

685
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,160
That said, if you have God, you
have everything else and all the

686
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,880
things that you're going
through, you just don't look at

687
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,920
it the same way.
You know that it's possible to

688
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,120
be in perfect peace, it's
possible to be in communion with

689
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,680
him, to have an awareness of
God, to practice the presence of

690
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,400
God so that he's with you all
the time and you're not

691
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,480
constantly just getting over
that problem or that problem,

692
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,720
but you're living and walking
with the living God.

693
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,480
That is the way He wants us to
live, and it's available to each

694
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,240
one of us in Christ.
Yeah.

695
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,400
So you use the phrase practicing
the presence of God.

696
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,440
Tell us what that looks like
practically.

697
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,760
Well, I mean, if you've ever
never read about that, there's a

698
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,199
book by Brother Lawrence that's
really good and many other

699
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:11,679
people that have exemplified
this.

700
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,239
But you know, we are told to
pray without seeking to give

701
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,840
thanks in all circumstances, to
rejoice always.

702
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,760
And we'll never be able to do
that unless we keep in contact

703
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,120
with God.
And I'm sure you probably have

704
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:23,880
practices like this.
I think I've heard on your

705
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,199
podcast, you know, you talking
about praying when you're

706
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,400
driving or just different things
that you've done and you've got

707
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,600
the these these wonderful
testimonies and you can probably

708
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,520
speak of this better than me
keeping that keeping God in our

709
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,280
in our awareness and going back
to him like, you know, tell us.

710
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,120
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, you know,

711
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,920
appreciate the fact that, you
know, you kind of set some of

712
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,880
that up there.
You know, for me, it's a lot of

713
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:51,199
what you have described, meaning
it becomes a daily practice of

714
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,480
seeking him out through prayer
and asking him.

715
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,600
And you were talking about this
as well, asking him about his

716
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,040
will.
So you know, my prayer life, and

717
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,360
I've talked about this very
publicly.

718
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,800
My prayer life changed very
dramatically when the Holy

719
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:13,640
Spirit shared with me that
because I was a created being, I

720
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:18,840
was there for subject to not
central in my own life.

721
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,160
And what that did was, is that
that that took away these

722
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,240
prayers that sounded like God,
could I have this?

723
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,520
What about this thing you don't?
I mean, what about the promotion

724
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,360
of work or whatever might be?
You don't need those types of

725
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,320
things.
And the prayers shifted over to

726
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,280
your will be done.
What is your will?

727
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,200
Lay it out for me.
Let me go, be obedient to it.

728
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,600
And that was really scary at
first, but he's continued to

729
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,520
strengthen and grow my faith
over time.

730
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,960
And that gets less and less
scary.

731
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,280
Yeah, that reminds me one of the
guys in my book, E Stanley

732
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,280
Jones, if you've never read
about him, that was one of his

733
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,200
big teachings is the power of
surrender.

734
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,560
He's like, you know, self self
focus is the disease and the

735
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,480
only remedy is to surrender
that.

736
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,760
And he's like, when we surrender
the one thing we own this self,

737
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,360
it is not cancelled but
cleansed.

738
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,000
Return to us with a new focus on
God.

739
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,160
He sanctifies that.
So you're focused on him like

740
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,640
that.
Like if you're really doing

741
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,720
that, you are on the vine.
And now it's the life and

742
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,600
vitality of God that's flowing
through you and you're being

743
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,320
guided by him to do, you know,
works that he created in advance

744
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,880
for us to do.
I mean, that's an incredible

745
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,120
life.
And no wonder you're able to

746
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,120
accomplish the things that you
do, just like through this

747
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,920
podcast.
Yeah, it's interesting that you

748
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,240
just brought up Ephesians 210
because that's a incredibly

749
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,760
pivotal verse for for me and my
family.

750
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:50,800
It it it's given me a lot of of
clarity on who I am, right?

751
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,480
I'm his workmanship, I'm his
handiwork and then created in

752
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,160
him, right.
And then why was I created?

753
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,520
It answers that in terms of what
is the purpose of my life will

754
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,920
ultimately from my perspective
through that the lens of that

755
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,040
verse.
It is to glorify him by doing

756
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,800
the things he prepared in
advance for me to do, which then

757
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:17,720
leads me to the question of him,
which is what are those things?

758
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,720
What do you want me to do?
What is your will?

759
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,120
You know what I mean in in not a
questioning of oh, I don't

760
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,320
believe any of this.
Instead, it's well, you created

761
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,320
me.
What are the things you want me

762
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,440
to do?
And that's part of the reason

763
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,240
why you and I sit here and have
this conversation because he

764
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:39,600
made it very clear that one of
those things was to do a

765
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,280
testimony based podcast called
When You Look.

766
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,800
So my response was OK and here
we sit.

767
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,600
So I would love to speak into
that for just a second because

768
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:55,400
what you did that's so powerful
is you waited until you had some

769
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:56,840
direction.
I think one of the things that

770
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,040
happens to people, and this
happened to me for a long time

771
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,320
in my search for surrender, I
found myself just saying I'm,

772
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,120
you know, I'm nothing, Lord, you
know, you're everything.

773
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,400
I ended up just sort of
passively sort of waiting for

774
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,880
like the clouds to part without,
you know, connecting with him in

775
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,040
the right way and realizing
something that I later realized

776
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:19,120
and that God has given us each
whispers and things.

777
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,640
Maybe they're deep in our heart.
They'll never go outside of, you

778
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,000
know, like his word, but there
are some sometimes that thing

779
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,760
that we just Oh my goodness, if
we could just do that one thing,

780
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,920
everything.
Sometimes that's the thing, but

781
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,520
we don't give ourselves
permission to ask God about it

782
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,880
and talk to God about it.
You know, just like he's made

783
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,560
the the trees and the, you know,
the creation and it all has its

784
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,920
balance.
You know, we're like that.

785
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,240
You know, some of us love the
this sort of accounting and some

786
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:44,520
of us love the really creative
things.

787
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,640
Like those are signals to us, I
think.

788
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,480
And so I don't know how you got
like clear about that, but I

789
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,240
would say to anybody, just don't
give up.

790
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,080
Just believe that he has
something for you.

791
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,360
And sometimes those things are
aligned with some of your gifts,

792
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,800
but just of course they have to
be submitted to him.

793
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,760
It can't be just all about, you
know, you know, like the word

794
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,800
says, selfish ambition.
But how can this advance the

795
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,000
Kingdom of God?
Yeah, I think that's a great

796
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,080
distinction to make here as we
kind of close out.

797
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,240
And that that is what you were
driving at.

798
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:18,200
Is is it from him or is it from
us?

799
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,520
And and that's what you were
describing in terms of that

800
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,200
selfish ambition.
You know, I interviewed lots of

801
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,160
folks on this podcast and many
of them have written books.

802
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,560
And what's so interesting,
obviously you have as well,

803
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,840
right, Many of them.
And what's so interesting is, is

804
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:42,720
that many, many of those authors
have said, I was directed to

805
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:46,480
write the book by God.
And I told him flat out, no,

806
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:48,920
that's not me.
I don't do that.

807
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,280
I don't write.
And it's been so interesting for

808
00:39:52,280 --> 00:40:00,680
me personally to see that and
hear that because transparently

809
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,160
one of my thoughts was anybody
that's written a book has

810
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,280
written a book to sell a book,
to make money for a book.

811
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:13,720
And here I've met countless
authors that literally say, I

812
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,520
was directed to write a book.
I'm not an author and I didn't

813
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,280
even want to do it, you know,
And so just coming back to your

814
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,720
point there of selfish ambition
versus what is God's will.

815
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,800
And I think it's, it's been very
eye opening for me.

816
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:34,680
To have my assumption shattered,
like my assumption right was

817
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,440
that the motive behind writing a
book was just for profit.

818
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:44,160
And most authors that I meet are
like, not even close, you know,

819
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,440
I mean like, not like truly like
not even close to that being the

820
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,760
motive.
So thanks for highlighting the

821
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,600
difference there between is this
from him?

822
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,920
Is this his will for our life?
Or is this selfish ambition that

823
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,200
we're asking him to bless?
Right.

824
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:03,640
Well, what I love about what
you're doing is that testimony

825
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,480
is so powerful.
And that's one of the themes in

826
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,160
my book is that, you know, when
when God moves in our life, when

827
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,240
we speak about it, that has so
much potential to help people.

828
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:14,080
And so your podcast is
positioned to do that to help

829
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,080
people see what God is doing.
It's like they'll let the

830
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,520
redeemed of the Lord tell their
story.

831
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,880
And that's what you're doing.
I just love it and I just think

832
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,640
it's wonderful.
And just pray that God blesses

833
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,200
it and continues to expand your
work.

834
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,040
Yeah.
Well, thank you.

835
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,040
That's very gracious of you.
But you mentioned as well you've

836
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,200
got a podcast, obviously we've
got some books.

837
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,000
So tell everybody how they can
get in touch with you, stay in

838
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,520
touch with you, etcetera.
You can go to

839
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,920
kathleenjohnsonministries.com
and that's sort of a HubSpot for

840
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,280
some of the other resources,
including the books and the

841
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,840
podcast.
So and my Hill to Hill podcast

842
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,320
is just getting started, but
I've got some wonderful guests

843
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,680
lined up.
I'm really excited to see what

844
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,880
God will do.
Yeah, awesome.

845
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,400
Yeah, fabulous.
We will for sure put links to

846
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,840
all of that stuff in the show
notes and in the description as

847
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,880
well.
So Kathleen, real pleasure.

848
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,240
Thank you a bunch for coming on
and sharing your testimony with

849
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:06,440
us.
We really appreciate it.

850
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:14,040
Thank you again, God bless.
Was it coincidence or God?

851
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:19,320
You decide for yourself, but I
believe you just heard a story

852
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,320
for His glory.
When You Look is powered by

853
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,800
stories just like this, and
yours could be next.

854
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,440
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a Guest
or use the link in the

855
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,400
description below.
Drop us a comment and share this

856
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,520
episode with somebody that needs
it.

857
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,280
Until next time, thanks a bunch
for listening and watching, and

858
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,120
God bless.